2023 Tesla Model Y Lemon in CA?

[Tobaraschu]

Hi,

I would like to inquire about the Lemon Law related to vehicle purchases in California.

On February 18, 2023, I received delivery of a 2023 Tesla Model Y Long Range. However, I have been experiencing an issue with the Trunk Lid not opening properly since it was delivered to me.

When I asked the delivery center staff, they reassured me that the Service Center could fix it, but in reality, they did not identify the problem or repair it.

During an attempt to take delivery of the car, the problem recurred at the Fremont Service Center. I requested that they repair it, but the staff did not fix it, even though they saw the problem firsthand and asked me to create a Bug report. After that, the problem recurred again, and I followed their advice. However, when I visited the center, they said there was no error and the symptoms were not reproducible, and they did not fix it.

After the visit, while using the car again, the problem recurred, so I recorded a video and created a Bug report. This is my third visit to the Santa Clara Service Center, and I would like to know how to apply the Lemon Law and what documentation I need to prepare.

For your information, I have included the history of services that I have received:

First service - Fremont (48370 Kato Rd, Fremont, CA 94538)
3/3/2023 Concern: The trunk is not closing properly. -> NO LABOR PERFORMED

Second service - Sunnyvale (680 E El Camino Real, Sunnyvale, CA 94087)
3/20/2023 Concern: Trunk door is not closing properly. I made several bug reports today, 3/20 5:07 and 6:37 -> unable to verify customer concern technician had Pulled bug reports and periscope. Inspected the time stamps provided by the customer and didn't find any alerts regarding the trunk. Inspected trunk throughout the day and was unable to replicated customer concern. The trunk works properly.

(Not Yet) Third service - Santa Clara (2801 Northwestern Pkwy, Santa Clara, CA 95051)
5/9/2023 Concern: Trunk Lid is not working. I recorded the video and made bug reports.

Please see the attached video, which shows the latest occurrence of the problem.

I would appreciate any advice you could offer regarding how to proceed with applying the Lemon Law and what documentation I need to prepare.
am hoping to receive a replacement car because I like the Model Y.

Thank you very much!

 

[jjrandorin]

CA lemon law information can be found several places online, like here:

https://www.dca.ca.gov/acp/pdf_files/lemonlaw_qa.pdf

 

[ucmndd]

This is not a “lemon law” sort of situation, sorry. Your expectations are not reasonable.

If you want anyone to think this represents a “serious defect” and Tesla has tried a “reasonable” number of times to fix it, you’re going to need a very good lawyer.

Tesla is not going to voluntarily buy back your car because of an intermittent trunk opening problem.

 

[Tobaraschu]

This is not a “lemon law” sort of situation, sorry. Your expectations are not reasonable.

If you want anyone to think this represents a “serious defect” and Tesla has tried a “reasonable” number of times to fix it, you’re going to need a very good lawyer.

Tesla is not going to voluntarily buy back your car because of an intermittent trunk opening problem.

Thank you for your message.
Based on the document provided by jjrandorin, if the issue is considered a serious safety issue, two or more attempts to fix the problem may be sufficient to invoke the Lemon Law. However, for non-safety related issues, the law typically requires at least four or more attempts to fix the problem before a vehicle can be considered a lemon.
Please let me know if I am wrong.

Thank you again for your answer.

 

[Tobaraschu]

CA lemon law information can be found several places online, like here:

https://www.dca.ca.gov/acp/pdf_files/lemonlaw_qa.pdf

Thank you very much. I will check the document details.

 

[jjrandorin]

Thank you for your message.
Based on the document provided by jjrandorin, if the issue is considered a serious safety issue, two or more attempts to fix the problem may be sufficient to invoke the Lemon Law. However, for non-safety related issues, the law typically requires at least four or more attempts to fix the problem before a vehicle can be considered a lemon.
Please let me know if I am wrong.

Thank you again for your answer.

Thats the way I understand it , but I am not a lawyer. One other thing I understand, is that you usually need either a VERY good lawyer, OR actual documented attempts to fix an issue. Based on what you posted, they have not been able to duplicate the issue, so you may think "I am two instances into them trying to fix it and about to take it in for the third" when it actuality those other instances likely wont count.

Also, people usually try to tie everything to "safety concern" because that has a lower threshold, but your trunk sometimes not opening wouldnt count as a safety concern. Your hood flying open (for example) would, or something that caused the car to shut down randomly in traffic might.

Since you joined here to post this, I would also encourage you to continue to look around the internet for more information about lemon laws, etc, since that is what you seem to be interested in.

I happen to share @ucmndd 's opinion that there is little chance of this being a lemon law issue, but as I said I am not a lawyer, but thats where you need to start (a lemon law lawyer, not necessarily an online forum where nothing anyone says here matters in the slightest toward getting you a result you want).

 

[Tobaraschu]

Thats the way I understand it , but I am not a lawyer. One other thing I understand, is that you usually need either a VERY good lawyer, OR actual documented attempts to fix an issue. Based on what you posted, they have not been able to duplicate the issue, so you may think "I am two instances into them trying to fix it and about to take it in for the third" when it actuality those other instances likely wont count.

Also, people usually try to tie everything to "safety concern" because that has a lower threshold, but your trunk sometimes not opening wouldnt count as a safety concern. Your hood flying open (for example) would, or something that caused the car to shut down randomly in traffic might.

Since you joined here to post this, I would also encourage you to continue to look around the internet for more information about lemon laws, etc, since that is what you seem to be interested in.

I happen to share @ucmndd 's opinion that there is little chance of this being a lemon law issue, but as I said I am not a lawyer, but thats where you need to start (a lemon law lawyer, not necessarily an online forum where nothing anyone says here matters in the slightest toward getting you a result you want).

Thank you very much. I will try to get more information from online and lawyer.

 

[jcanoe]

You should take your Tesla Model Y to a different service center. Sometimes that is the only way to get results.

 

[LBM4]

This is not a “lemon law” sort of situation, sorry. Your expectations are not reasonable.

If you want anyone to think this represents a “serious defect” and Tesla has tried a “reasonable” number of times to fix it, you’re going to need a very good lawyer.

Tesla is not going to voluntarily buy back your car because of an intermittent trunk opening problem.

Yep, I agree. The OP will be hard pressed to find a lawyer that would pursue this.

 

[Pianewman]

...and the car is NOT disabled or out of service by this issue. I thought that was critical for "lemon law" situations.

 

[cwerdna]

...and the car is NOT disabled or out of service by this issue. I thought that was critical for "lemon law" situations.

It is not. Look under California Lemon Law at Buying and Maintaining a Car.

I'm in California. I had my former '19 Bolt bought back by GM (as did many others) due the battery fire recall. I don't have time to retell the story but mentioned at the below:

Delivery and service nightmare

I check on a Friday to see when my model y will be coming and expected delievery date was pushed back to two months from the date I checked. The very next day, a Saturday, I get a message saying your model y is ready schedule your pick up my Wednesday. I’m almost certain someone before me was...

teslamotorsclub.com

Delivery and service nightmare

Lemon laws are defined by your state, but typically cover the same continual issue that can’t be corrected within a certain time frame or number of service visits. They cover mechanical issues that prevent the vehicle from performing as promised when purchased. Any cosmetic issues, such as paint...

teslamotorsclub.com

I drove my car the whole time from when it got included in the recall in Aug 2021 until the day I surrendered it at end of Jan 2022. I even got hit by a Bolt parking ban at my work which I mentioned at Bolt Parking Only.

 

[240vPlug]

If you can open it from the touch screen and close it from the button on the lid, seems to be the button above the license plate is defective or there is some wiring/electrical issue. It can clearly open and close.

You need to document each visit thoroughly (e.g dates, times, what was done, who you spoke to, etc). I would take it in at least double the number of attempts required by law. If you do all that you will have a better chance at prevailing. I am not an attorney.

 

[fiehlsport]

When a car is truly a lemon, you don't need a lawyer. I've gone through this with Hyundai. Customer care will work with you to get the correct forms and everything to initiate a buyback, no legal team required. You work 100% with the manufacturer.

This is indeed not a lemon.

 

[jjrandorin]

When a car is truly a lemon, you don't need a lawyer. I've gone through this with Hyundai. Customer care will work with you to get the correct forms and everything to initiate a buyback, no legal team required. You work 100% with the manufacturer.

This is indeed not a lemon.

That was my BMW experience as well. I had a a X5 that had electrical gremlins and after a couple of times trying to repair it, including headlights randomly not working, the dealer initiated a buyback (actually a substitution of collateral because my car was a lease). It was painless, it just took a couple months because they actually ordered another new car for me.

...and the car is NOT disabled or out of service by this issue. I thought that was critical for "lemon law" situations.

In CA I dont think this is a requirement, not sure about other states though.

You need to document each visit thoroughly (e.g dates, times, what was done, who you spoke to, etc). I would take it in at least double the number of attempts required by law. If you do all that you will have a better chance at prevailing.

Thats good advice. Even something like this could eventually end up being a lemon law claim, if there is enough documentation around it not working and multiple attempts to fix it. its a pretty common repair tactic at a dealer to be very careful with what they document about repairs.

 

[240vPlug]

If something is/isn't a lemon is determined by state laws. Here in Maryland it has to affect the use OR the market value of the vehicle. Something like this I think checks both of those boxes. The market value part is obvious. If there is a problem with the car and service is unable to fix it, very few people will want to buy the car and those that do will offer you significantly less than fair market value for it.

Unfortunately, as with most service departments, they have an escalation process. The first couple times you go in, unless the problem and solution are blatantly obvious, the problem may not get corrected. Once you get to the 3rd or 4th attempt service is usually authorized to spend more time on the issue and it goes to a more senior tech.

 

[Tobaraschu]

If you can open it from the touch screen and close it from the button on the lid, seems to be the button above the license plate is defective or there is some wiring/electrical issue. It can clearly open and close.

You need to document each visit thoroughly (e.g dates, times, what was done, who you spoke to, etc). I would take it in at least double the number of attempts required by law. If you do all that you will have a better chance at prevailing. I am not an attorney.

I tried several times. When you watch my video, you will find my car is trying to open the trunk but it's mechanically locked (maybe latch is locked?).
It's really painful to visit the service center and waste my time. Even they didn't give me a loaner car but just gave a voucher (Uber $100). I can't make a round trip from my home to my office with only $100. Anyway.. Yes, I will follow your recommendation but I feel like already it's a nightmare.

 

[Tobaraschu]

If something is/isn't a lemon is determined by state laws. Here in Maryland it has to affect the use OR the market value of the vehicle. Something like this I think checks both of those boxes. The market value part is obvious. If there is a problem with the car and service is unable to fix it, very few people will want to buy the car and those that do will offer you significantly less than fair market value for it.

Unfortunately, as with most service departments, they have an escalation process. The first couple times you go in, unless the problem and solution are blatantly obvious, the problem may not get corrected. Once you get to the 3rd or 4th attempt service is usually authorized to spend more time on the issue and it goes to a more senior tech.

Yes.. If Tesla can solve my issue this time, I don't need to concern anymore. Only one thing I really want is having no issues.
I will say to the service department that this is 3rd time visiting with the same issue.

Thank you very much for your advice.

 

[Tobaraschu]

That was my BMW experience as well. I had a a X5 that had electrical gremlins and after a couple of times trying to repair it, including headlights randomly not working, the dealer initiated a buyback (actually a substitution of collateral because my car was a lease). It was painless, it just took a couple months because they actually ordered another new car for me.



In CA I dont think this is a requirement, not sure about other states though.



Thats good advice. Even something like this could eventually end up being a lemon law claim, if there is enough documentation around it not working and multiple attempts to fix it. its a pretty common repair tactic at a dealer to be very careful with what they document about repairs.

Thank you very much. I am really happy to have an experienced person.
Just I want to have fixed the issue..

 

[Kairide]

If the service center can’t replicate the issue, they can’t fix it. Either you would need to bring it in and hope it happens in front of them or leave it there long enough they can attempt enough times to see it themselves. Also an intermittent issue with a trunk is far from a pressing safety issue.
I’ve never had to lemon a car, but have done it with a motorcycle a few years ago in CA. It’s not a quick process, because the service dept. needs time to troubleshoot and go through every possible solution before the manufacturer will initiate the buy back. It’s slow, but painless, at least in my experience.
A lawyer is a waste of money and time.

 

[woolymammoth17]

There are three ways a car can be defined as a lemon in California:

1. Four or more attempted repairs for the same problem and it still is not fixed; or
2. Two or more attempted repairs for the same problem if that problem is big enough to cause death or serious injury, and it still is not fixed; or
3. The vehicle has been out of service for repair for more than 30 collective days (the 30 days do not need to be consecutive).

In CA the law includes compensation for the plaintiff's attorney in Lemon Law cases. There should be no charge to you for the attorney's services, nor should they take a portion of the recovered amount.

No reason not to consult an attorney if you feel that strongly.

IMO, this is likely something simple they should've figured out but just haven't yet. I'd give them another shot and take it in to a different Tesla Service Center.