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2170 in Model S soon?

Discussion in 'Model S: Ordering, Production, Delivery' started by Lsutiger, Jun 19, 2017.

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  1. Lsutiger

    Lsutiger Member

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    I'm very close to placing an order for a Model S. I know the switch to the 2170 battery is imminent but does anyone have a good guess as to when? Since Elon is adamant about not letting the Model 3 contain superior technology to the S and with Model 3 starting production next month I would think it has to be sooner rather than later. Thoughts?
     
  2. SMAlset

    SMAlset Member

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    From what I read this morning in an Electrek article prompted by JB Straubel's battery comments this weekend at the Energy Fair in Wisconsin, I wouldn't wait if you are ready to buy.

    "The company has been aiming to achieve a 35% cost reduction with the new cells. At first, they will only be used in the Model 3, but Tesla also plans to transition Model S and Model X on the new cells as they increase production." Link to the article here: Tesla is starting Model 3 battery cell production at Gigafactory 1 ‘right now’
     
  3. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    The technology quote is all about user facing features, not underlying parts. I don't think I'd count on it as a reason to expect 2170 S/X. On the other hand, Tesla should make a bigger profit margin on the car with 2170 cells, so you'd think they'll want to transition as soon as it fits within their overall plan. I think they'll hold off until the 3 production is stable, then go to 2170 cells in the fall or the spring.

    They apparently clarified that the free Supercharging for future upgrades from current owners was until the end of this year for now, so right after the first of the year would be a reasonable guess.
     
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  4. gabeincal

    gabeincal Enjoying Napa life the electric way

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    ^^ That! I wouldn't count on this move for the next year..
     
  5. Derek Kessler

    Derek Kessler Member

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    • Informative x 2
  6. sdorn

    sdorn Director of Awesome

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    Beat me to it.

    upload_2017-6-19_13-7-10.png
     
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  7. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

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    2170 for Model S won't happen for a while. It requires a pack redesign for Model S and X, and they just went through such a redesign recently for the 100 kWh pack, so I doubt they would go through that effort again so soon. Plus they no doubt have a contract with Panasonic to buy the 18650 cells from Panasonic's existing manufacturing lines. Panasonic won't let Tesla strand their capital assets, so there must be some kind of long term transition in the works.

    It would be interesting to know exactly when the new car cells started being made in the gigafactory. I believe there is a 30 day curing time for cells, so actual cells ready for a car is probably 5-6 weeks after true start of manufacturing.
     
  8. jareade

    jareade Supporting Member

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    I'd agree for no earlier than 2018 - I'd expect they need every single 2170 for the Model 3.
     
  9. Lsutiger

    Lsutiger Member

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  10. bcampbelllds

    bcampbelllds Member

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    Perhaps they need real world mass data on the new cells with the Model 3 and if the new packs test well, they will roll it out to the S and X.
     
  11. sdorn

    sdorn Director of Awesome

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  12. jelloslug

    jelloslug Active Member

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    The 2170 cells are taller than the 18650 cells so packaging would probably require changes to the body shell.
     
  13. HumanGenome

    HumanGenome Member

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    100% this is why
     
  14. David99

    David99 Active Member

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    The new cells are only 5 mm taller. They will fit into the current pack size just fine.

    It is way more complicated to build en entire car especially in large numbers, than it is to produce a simple battery cell that is made out of far far less materials and sources. I cannot see battery production being the bottleneck at all. Getting the Model 3 produced in large numbers is an incredible challenge, though. So there will be plenty of cells for the Model S/X and my bet is they will come with a redesigned/updated version 2.0 of the Model S/X. When? early 2018.
     
  15. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    Even if the pack can't take the extra height as currently designed, it should be trivial to drop the bottom of the pack by a quarter inch to gain that clearance.

    I'm assuming the 2170 pack will probably have all the intriguing patents we saw over the last couple of years - the heat pipe heating and cooling, the single side connections by flexible circuit board with built in fusing elements, and end of cell cooling. All of that presumably changes the clearance requirements by more than the 5mm height difference.
     
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  16. jelloslug

    jelloslug Active Member

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    I guarantee that there is not a "spare" 5mm of space in the battery packaging.
     
  17. David99

    David99 Active Member

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    Google some photos from people that opened the Model S/X battery pack. There is plenty of vertical space. More than 5 mm.
    Look here Especially in the last photo, you can see how deep the modules are sitting compared to the frame. There is enough space to fit the new cells in vertically.

    Just as a reminder, there was no spare space in the original battery pack either, yet Tesla was able to fit 16% more batteries into it (with the 100 pack).
     
  18. jelloslug

    jelloslug Active Member

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    There was plenty of empty space in the old 85 pack. Each module had empty cell locations. The modules in those photos are not just sitting inside the housing with a gap between the lid and the cells, there are insulation plates between cells and the metal case that cannot just be omitted.
     
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  19. Brovane

    Brovane Member

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    Doesn't the 18650 cell contract from Panasonic terminate the end of this year?

    What Elon tweeted also seems to contradict what was said earlier this year. Report: Tesla To Transition To 2170 Cell In Model S & X By End Of Year

    “he (Elon Musk) definitely said the phrase “transition by end of year”. 2170 talk was just prior…talking about improved chemistry/geometry, active/passive content. but there were some decent gaps in the audio / muffled noise. maybe something else was mentioned regarding the transition. but i’ve always assumed all models switch to 2170 eventually. just timing a question.”
     
  20. croman

    croman Active Member

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    Its not worth it. The 18650 do what the 2170 do. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
     

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