22’ LR range - 1000km return trip…real world range.

[Destiny1701]

I own a 22’ M3 LR with around 24.000 km now driven in 10 months.

This last 2 days I went on a quick 2 day trip from Toronto to Ottawa ON …roughly 500km per leg.

Temp both way approx 17-18c, no rain clear skies.

1. Started from home at 100% charge (556km).
Supercharger 250km away (bellville)was my planned mid-stop. However est range at arrival showed 20%. Which would indicate approx 111km remaining. Ie. 445km drain on a 250km trip Found this initially odd.

Drove with my daughter and 2 small pieces of luggage. 2 heated seats on, fam/aC set to off. Music playing.

Avg speed was 120kph…occasional 130…at times 110 Running 20’ Perf V1 rims and Michelin AS4’s.

Arrived at the SC with actually 14% showing. Which means 78km range left out of 556? Literally drank 478km on a 250km trip on mostly flat elevation. I was shocked to say the least.

2. Return trip. Almost the same indicators.
We drove from Ottawa and stopped in Kingston ON to charge up to 450km. Next SC stop was 200km away (Port Hope). But when we reached it, range has decreased to 75km. 375km drank for 200km actual distance. Same heated seats, no fan, music. Avg speed was 125kph.

SC fees are not cheap and tbh it feels like a Tesla ‘Km’ is like .6 of a km in reality. Total scam charging for 60% of what you actually get real world. Absolute crap range. I realize 18” rubber would have yielded better results but that much difference ? I can’t imagine running AC or heat and what this would have done.

First time I actually missed a regular ice vehicle You pay for 650km range…you get 650km range or close thereof. And can stop for 5-10 min for a sandwhich and go. Imagine filling up and getting 400km out of that 650? On a 2022 late model ice car in normal driving conditions? Grounds for suing the car manuf.

To me Teslas are city cars. The long distance part still inefficient in time as well as fees for km you don’t actually get. I’ve been a tesla owner since 2016 with Model S, X, 3 and Y.
The max ranges seem to get worst with every new interaction or newly stated ‘range’.

Sorry to vent…

 

[Soul Surfer]

Good points. Thank you for sharing. As someone who charges at n/c in my building parking stall (read: I am not metered), I look at it as a minor inconvenience. We had done a road trip to the Catskills in upstate NY in August. I had to use the SC's but I didnt really mind as I had been driving for almost a year for free. Found a couple free CHAdeMO chargers along the way the TOCO (Tesla Owners Club of Ontario) CHAdeMO loaner, adapter came in quite handy.

 

[GoergeJetson]

Nearly every EV test I've seen a Tesla M3 still has greater range than the competition that costs the same or more, so to call it a scam when you have different tires than OEM and don't understand that highways speeds yield shorter range is not really an issue created by Tesla. When I bought my M3P, the range rated by the EPA was 305 mi, on the highway my real world range is about 240 mi @75mph. It's not a scam to me, since Tesla just publishes the EPA rated range, and I know if I drove slower, I'd get better highway range. Not to mention, any other EV in my price range that I could have purchased would have shorter range and a questionable charging network. Of course you can always sell your car for almost what you paid for it and go back to buying gas at the gas station if you are unhappy.

 

[Destiny1701]

Your example I would totally accept.
240 miles out of 300? 80% efficiency? Bring it on. In my example in miles, I started with 345miles, drove 155miles and ended up with 48 miles remaining range…not even close to 80% let alone 60%. I would have gotten maybe a total of 195 miles total out of 345 had I driven to zero. That’s 56% effciency at 75mph avg.

The tires and rims are oem tesla fyi. They usually fit to the Perf M3. There is no way 18” to 20” all season rubber (not summer tires) can suck 24% off the range. Keep in mind again no heat or fan running.

The published max EPA range is not relevant here. It’s how much real world range one actually receives vs what was just ‘purchased’ in kw power. Ie. Don’t care if I started 100% at 556 or 500 or 450. It’s what was yielded real world. If the range tells me 556, then is it justified to receive 300km in normal driving conditions, AP stable speed, 75mph, no fan, reasonably flat elevation?

Driving at 120kph or 75mph is within normal speed levels for a road trip. I see no reason to sacrifice this vs an ice where you don’t even think about it. For me it’s driving as you normally would and looking at what your actually receiving. With ice I’d even go 130kph at times and not even think about it.

If this is what was yielded in fall weather 16-18c, what would it yield in 2 months time with 3-5c, full heat running? I received around 55-60% efficiency on a smooth weather trip with AP enabled most of the way with no fan on to conserve some energy. What would it be in winter? 40%?

My previous 2018 100D model S with 21” oem set gave better mileage numbers than this. And that’s with older motors and tech. So while on paper the M3 is the most efficient of all the models, this trip was anything but that.

I’m not upset enough to trade it in for an ice…far from it! I drive the car daily and its fantastic.
City driving doesn’t affect me as I charge at home to 80% (445km) and drive around 100km a day.. if that. Doesn’t matter to me if at the end of the day I’m at 300 remaining or 250…irrelevant as more than enough juice. I note that my actual km driven vs the reduction of range is totally off but I shrug it off as it doesn’t matter when I’m home to plug back in. I don’t drive enough daily to harp on it.

But this longer trip really opened my eyes to how inefficient my car is on highway. That’s all.
The range drop is unjustifiable in this case.

 

[VT_EE]

Couple of things: first off get your alignment checked. This can kill range, and Tesla sometimes does a poor job. Second, stay below 70 if you really want the extra range and to get something a little closer to rated range. They advertise EPA range (in the US at least), which is performed at speeds below the 75 you were driving. I have been driving a Model 3 for 4 years with the aero wheels and get great range, easily getting close to EPA numbers at 70mph in non-freezing temperatures. I beat EPA range if keeping it below 65mph. Tesla's are absolutely road trip cars. I have done many 800mile drives with only 3-4 20-40min charging stops.

 

[Shelburne]

I've only got 15,600 miles on my 2020M3LR. Most of my driving is done on rural two lane roads with 50mph speed limits. I regularly do a 20 mile roundtrip on a stretch of very flat road at 50-55mph. I've found that in mild weather I usually get back from this trip having used 16-18 miles of range instead of the expected 20. But in cold weather, with the heat on I get back from this trip having used 22-25 miles of range. Heat is "free" in an ICE car - it's just wasted heat energy from the engine being sent into the cabin. In any EV heat for the cabin is a direct drain from the battery and the car's range whether you are using the seat heaters, the cabin heater or both. Going up hills also drains more energy, as does higher speeds. Adding a passenger and cargo also depletes range. All this is not taken into account in EPA ratings which are wildly inaccurate be they for an ICE car or an EV.

 

[one2many]

I drive 160kmh, do not see a problem, when I need to stop, well so what.

Just for fun :

I found a guy who drove 3500km and it took 40kg of H2, 11 stops
Price of H2 12.85 Eur/kg
87.5 km /kg = 12.85 Eur

Gas Car 7.8 l/100km
87.5 km = 13.6 Eur

Electric Tesla
170 watt, hour, km = 14.87 KWH
super charger 0.5 Eur KWH = 7.5 Eur (road trip)

I cannot make H2 at home or gas, but electrons I can
so its free.

 

[sightman]

What was your wh per km?

 

[Destiny1701]

What was your wh per km?

Wish I checked last night when pulling in.
Ok this morning it shows me the Current trip …the last 146km stretch which was going through Toronto itself so slightly slower than the rest of the drive. It shows:

Distance 146k
Duration 1:21 …81 minutes
(So basically 108km/hour avg for the last stretch.)
Avg energy : 226wh/km or I guess 360wh/mile.

This is with 108kh avg, no fan running, but heated seats. Temp outside was 17c.

Can 20” tires really make that much of a rolling traction difference? Same 235/35/20 Michelin Pilot AS.

 

[VT_EE]

Wish I checked last night when pulling in.
Ok this morning it shows me the Current trip …the last 146km stretch which was going through Toronto itself so slightly slower than the rest of the drive. It shows:

Distance 146k
Duration 1:21 …81 minutes
(So basically 108km/hour avg for the last stretch.)
Avg energy : 226wh/km or I guess 360wh/mile.

This is with 108kh avg, no fan running, but heated seats. Temp outside was 17c.

Can 20” tires really make that much of a rolling traction difference? Same 235/35/20 Michelin Pilot AS.

360 wh/mile is awful. It could be your tires, but I would get an alignment if I were you. It should not be that bad driving 70-75 in a Model 3 in the conditions you described.

 

[XPsionic]

That's pretty high. I cruise at 75mph, maybe 1/2 freeway driving 1/2 city, and with oem 18s the lifetime usage is 232wh/mile. 2021 sr+

I blast the ac all the time as well.

 

[travis3000]

I also live in Canada. I did a similar trip with my Model 3 LR last summer. Charged to 100% which was 567KM at the time, drove from Barrie, ON to Milton to pick up friends(120KM) then to Belleville (230KM). So a total of 350KM. I had 4 adults in my car with 4 luggages. I arrived with 100KM left of range. Meaning this 567km actually turned out to be 450KM of real life range. So I was in the same boat. These figures held true as I headed to Montreal as well. Same with my trip home.

I soon realized after trial and error and many tests, that Teslas range only holds true if you keep the car below 100KM/H (60 miles/hour). Do the exact same trip and set your cruise to 100KM/H ‍, and providing the weather is decent (above 15C) and the AC is low/off and its not uphill the entire time... and you will absolutely achieve their ratings.

I did a trip from Barrie to Peterborough (190KM each way). Charged to 100% (567KM) , and by the time I was back in Barrie I still had 180KM left. So even with 4 stops, and the AC on low... I was able to beat the cars range by about 3KM haha. I did it by driving 80-100KM/H the entire time.

For what its worth I have the stock tires but I took off the aero plate covers and added the Rimetrix aero covers.

 

[Bouba]

I think that the EPA range is based on approximately 140 Wh/km. I think that this is achievable, with care, but I also think that it has to include some urban driving

 

[jjrandorin]

Your example I would totally accept.
240 miles out of 300? 80% efficiency? Bring it on. In my example in miles, I started with 345miles, drove 155miles and ended up with 48 miles remaining range…not even close to 80% let alone 60%. I would have gotten maybe a total of 195 miles total out of 345 had I driven to zero. That’s 56% effciency at 75mph avg.

The tires and rims are oem tesla fyi. They usually fit to the Perf M3. There is no way 18” to 20” all season rubber (not summer tires) can suck 24% off the range. Keep in mind again no heat or fan running.

The published max EPA range is not relevant here. It’s how much real world range one actually receives vs what was just ‘purchased’ in kw power. Ie. Don’t care if I started 100% at 556 or 500 or 450. It’s what was yielded real world. If the range tells me 556, then is it justified to receive 300km in normal driving conditions, AP stable speed, 75mph, no fan, reasonably flat elevation?

Driving at 120kph or 75mph is within normal speed levels for a road trip. I see no reason to sacrifice this vs an ice where you don’t even think about it. For me it’s driving as you normally would and looking at what your actually receiving. With ice I’d even go 130kph at times and not even think about it.

If this is what was yielded in fall weather 16-18c, what would it yield in 2 months time with 3-5c, full heat running? I received around 55-60% efficiency on a smooth weather trip with AP enabled most of the way with no fan on to conserve some energy. What would it be in winter? 40%?

My previous 2018 100D model S with 21” oem set gave better mileage numbers than this. And that’s with older motors and tech. So while on paper the M3 is the most efficient of all the models, this trip was anything but that.

I’m not upset enough to trade it in for an ice…far from it! I drive the car daily and its fantastic.
City driving doesn’t affect me as I charge at home to 80% (445km) and drive around 100km a day.. if that. Doesn’t matter to me if at the end of the day I’m at 300 remaining or 250…irrelevant as more than enough juice. I note that my actual km driven vs the reduction of range is totally off but I shrug it off as it doesn’t matter when I’m home to plug back in. I don’t drive enough daily to harp on it.

But this longer trip really opened my eyes to how inefficient my car is on highway. That’s all.
The range drop is unjustifiable in this case.

The performance has a 315 range with those tires with the same battery that has a 358+ range on a LR, so you are not starting with a 345 range. Thats 13 miles down from the top range of a New LR, so you need to take 13 miles off the top range of a Performance.

A performance is 315, take away 13 miles, so your starting range is 302. Re run your calculations with a starting value of 302.

You also have an aftermarket boost on your car, unless I am mis remembering it, so your car is actually a performance, not a LR, so thats another reason why I am saying your starting value is not anywhere near 345.

While its absolutely true that you are not going to get rated range in most circumstances, your op is basically the equivalent of a rant about range and gas prices in a chipped / tuned BMW / Audi, going 75MPH.

 

[Dalmatic]

Just wondering... What tire pressures are you all running on your cars? Is everyone reporting observed range based on recommended tire pressures, or are some making adjustments, in favor of either better ride comfort or increased efficiency?

 

[Destiny1701]

The performance has a 315 range with those tires with the same battery that has a 358+ range on a LR, so you are not starting with a 345 range. Thats 13 miles down from the top range of a New LR, so you need to take 13 miles off the top range of a Performance.

A performance is 315, take away 13 miles, so your starting range is 302. Re run your calculations with a starting value of 302.

You also have an aftermarket boost on your car, unless I am mis remembering it, so your car is actually a performance, not a LR, so thats another reason why I am saying your starting value is not anywhere near 345.

While its absolutely true that you are not going to get rated range in most circumstances, your op is basically the equivalent of a rant about range and gas prices in a chipped / tuned BMW / Audi, going 75MPH.

I never bought a Performance. My car was originally 358 miles yes at 100%…a regular 2022 LR. The 345 is what it’s degraded to in 10 months so that was the starting point. Why would I use the Perf 315 mile as a starting point when Using the same 20” rims/tires but I also don’t have the larger rear P motor? It may be the same battery but not the same rear motor. The P motor is a different animal and yes does ‘drink’ more than LR.

ABoost does not consume any more kw than a non boosted LR if you drive with the same light foot or style. Particularly on highway driving where it’s a set speed. Takes no extra energy unless mashing the pedal more.

The AM boost is exactly the accel boost from Tesla. It does not affect mileage unless one actually asks for the extra speed on the throttle. A chipped/tuned ice car is not the same. I’m not fitting the car with a cold air intake, or a turbo for more gas and O2 or to remap a tranny…it’s a simple software unlock that allows the full power of the LR motors (not the P motor) should it be required or used. No diff cruising on highway.

Regardless of the starting point as is mentioned, the wh/mile is quite high for the conditions I drove in.

I’d like to try the route again one day with the extra 18” set I have and perhaps at 65pmh rather than 75. Even at 75 though, it’s a brutal efficiency I noted. Something to consider and track for next time…nothing more

 

[Destiny1701]

Just wondering... What tire pressures are you all running on your cars? Is everyone reporting observed range based on recommended tire pressures, or are some making adjustments, in favor of either better ride comfort or increased efficiency?

Hey that’s a good thought. I’m running them at 39psi cold…so roughly 42 warm. Not sure it’s that far off the oem 40 psi cold.

 

[Bouba]

I haven’t done a lot of road trips in my one year of ownership (M3LR MIC 75kWh) and I don’t always get good mileage....but in 11,500 km I have used an average of 140 Wh/km...so I have achieved EPA..
To me, anyone can achieve any figure that a manufacturer puts out over one journey...but to achieve the figure with a year of driving, I think, is remarkable...and probably the first car I’ve ever owned that did reach it’s published figure.

 

[sightman]

I would def up the pressure. I run 45 psi cold on my 22 LR. I only have 6000 miles but lifetime avg is 225 wh/mile. I’m mostly on expressways w 55mph. Your 360 wh/mile is quite high. Were you fighting a headwind? Elevation change?

Those 20s are like boat anchors. And your speed is an obvious contributor.

But I agree, quite high.

 

[jjrandorin]

Hey that’s a good thought. I’m running them at 39psi cold…so roughly 42 warm. Not sure it’s that far off the oem 40 psi cold.

The OEM tires on a model 3 performance are 42 cold PSI (which is whats on my door jam). I have zero g tires on my car now, but I have the OEM 20s in my garage that came with my car (the same ones you mention you have, performance version 1 tires).

The tire pressure recommended from tesla on those tires is 42psi cold. Try that (wh/mi is impacted by tire pressure).