ABRP is basically useless for determining anything but the first stop. There's inevitably something that happens where you stay longer or shorter than ABRP told you to or the DC fast charger is charging at a slower rate than you expected and then you typically need to adjust your next stop based on that.
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2200 mile round trip drive: M3LR or ICE?
- Thread starter phishphan
- Start date
Yep, you have to be flexible. A crowded V2 Supercharger will only charge at about half speed if both the A and B stalls are being used, or it's always possible that all chargers in a location may be being used and you have to wait. At least now, it shows how many chargers are available at each location on the navigation screen; that's a big help compared to the past since sometimes you can make alternate choices.
ABRP has a setting that you can change for fewer longer stops, quickest time from A to B, or shorter more frequent stops. It defaults to quickest time, but I don't think ABRP allocates enough overhead time for getting to and from the charger and starting and stopping the charging process. This also results in more stops than I prefer, so I move the slider a notch over to fewer longer stops when I'm planning a trip.
One final note in case you haven't done much, or any, supercharging. V2 and V3 superchargers are quite different. V2 maxes out at 150kW and that 150kW is shared between the A and B stalls of a particular number, so if you're charging at something near the 150kW max of a V2 on say 1A and someone starts charging on 1B, your charge rate will be halved, since the 150 is shared. Always try to be on your own number at V2 chargers. V3 chargers max out at 250kW and should deliver the full 250kW to every stall irrespective of who else is charging. V3 chargers are also liquid cooled, so ambient temperature has little impact on them. V2 chargers are not cooled, and on hot days, the handle and plug can get warm enough that the charger will actually slow down its rate of charge to prevent overheating.
I am very familiar with this route and will actually be doing 80% of the route next week in our Model 3. A couple things.
Driving this route heading east is usually much easier than heading west. The winds and temps along I 80 in southern WY can be brutal but they are generally much worse and constant during the winter.
I am going to try out the smaller Supercharger in Cheyenne and skip Laramie. The Laramie Supercharger sucks because there is nothing near it at all. Even getting to a gas station is a sketchy walk.
Having access to a charger at your destination makes everything better.
Your first long trip in an EV feels like a bit of an adventure and can be a lot of fun. You will learn it wasn't worth the hype, but it doesn't mean you can't enjoy it.
FYI in Dec through March I would take your ICE or maybe try the I-70 route.
Driving this route heading east is usually much easier than heading west. The winds and temps along I 80 in southern WY can be brutal but they are generally much worse and constant during the winter.
I am going to try out the smaller Supercharger in Cheyenne and skip Laramie. The Laramie Supercharger sucks because there is nothing near it at all. Even getting to a gas station is a sketchy walk.
Having access to a charger at your destination makes everything better.
Your first long trip in an EV feels like a bit of an adventure and can be a lot of fun. You will learn it wasn't worth the hype, but it doesn't mean you can't enjoy it.
FYI in Dec through March I would take your ICE or maybe try the I-70 route.
Really good advice. The Cheyanne Superchargers are in the middle of a mall parking lot (not on the edge) and are a bit out of the way to get to. You'll spend some time driving to and from them from I80. But obviously lots of services.
LoneStarEve
Member
I just did a 5,000 miles road trip, our first EV one.
A few observations:
1) When you are driving along these long stretches switch from the map view to the trip consumption view. This is the burndown chart that shows what battery level you will arrive with. It's pretty good. If the arrival percentage drops below 10% just drop your speed by 5mph and keep an eye on it for the next 15 minutes. If it's still dropping then lower your speed another 5mph. If you will arrive with more than 10% you can increase your speed by 5mph. This honestly gets rid of all range anxiety and is very useful for sudden wind which, if a headwind at like 20mph, is brutal on battery usage.
2) When you are charging the Tesla will eventually say you have enough to continue the trip. Charge another 5 minutes at first until you get used to all this.
3) Don't rely on the charger at the hotel being available, especially if you check in late. Chances are another EV will be hooked up or it may be blocked by an ICE car. This tends to be a problem if the chargers are in convenient spots near the entrance vs round the back. I select hotels with superchargers not far away as my backup.
4) To save time charging you should supercharge in the evening while the battery is warm vs in the morning when the battery will be cold. And make sure you are using the Tesla nav so that it preconditions the battery on your way to the charger so it charges as fast as possible. Bear in mind this process can take anywhere from 5-20 minutes so if you arrive at the hotel, then decide you want to pop over to the superchargers 3 mins down the road and set them as the destination in the nav, the preconditioning wont have time to heat up the battery fully before you get there.
5) The Tesla nav, on high speed interstate, will typically have you stopping every 2 hours. This is when you stretch your legs and use the restroom. Typically we found that it would take us about 15 mins to do that and get back to the car which normally only wants 15-20mins of charging at most so you're not waiting much if at all. Your lunch/dinner stops mean you will be away from the car for at least 45minutes and your problem there will be getting back to it before it hits 100% and you start being charged idle fees. Many times we got back to the car with 96% charge, far, far more than the route planner wanted, and that was after eating pretty quick and settling the check before we finished eating...
6) Try and avoid sharing a Supercharger with another car (make sure you are on a different number, eg if you see a car on 1a don't use 1b, use 2a or 2b etc. the numbers are on the bottom, if there is no number then they don't share anyway.
7) Bring glass cleaner and some microfiber towels to clean your windshield, there likely won't be anything provided at the chargers to do so as there often is at gas stations.
8) You can check what facilities are at a Supercharger location using the built in Nav (click on the icons beneath the supercharger info card, for restaurants etc. Or use google/apple maps. In some locations the charhers are in hotel parking lots with no food etc nearby. You may want to go through a drive thru just before you stop to charge so you have something with you to eat/drink etc.
9) If you stop every 2 hours or so in your gas car for the restroom or drinks/snacks etc and a 45 minutes lunch, then a 10 hour gas trip (including stops) becomes 10.5 hours in a Tesla if you are good at optimizing.
10) Rock chips are a part of motoring life, however you can avoid 99% of them by keeping several lengths behind the vehicle in front, especially a truck. Most people in this country travel far too close to the vehicle in front, which is also why we have such big pile ups when something goes wrong...
A few observations:
1) When you are driving along these long stretches switch from the map view to the trip consumption view. This is the burndown chart that shows what battery level you will arrive with. It's pretty good. If the arrival percentage drops below 10% just drop your speed by 5mph and keep an eye on it for the next 15 minutes. If it's still dropping then lower your speed another 5mph. If you will arrive with more than 10% you can increase your speed by 5mph. This honestly gets rid of all range anxiety and is very useful for sudden wind which, if a headwind at like 20mph, is brutal on battery usage.
2) When you are charging the Tesla will eventually say you have enough to continue the trip. Charge another 5 minutes at first until you get used to all this.
3) Don't rely on the charger at the hotel being available, especially if you check in late. Chances are another EV will be hooked up or it may be blocked by an ICE car. This tends to be a problem if the chargers are in convenient spots near the entrance vs round the back. I select hotels with superchargers not far away as my backup.
4) To save time charging you should supercharge in the evening while the battery is warm vs in the morning when the battery will be cold. And make sure you are using the Tesla nav so that it preconditions the battery on your way to the charger so it charges as fast as possible. Bear in mind this process can take anywhere from 5-20 minutes so if you arrive at the hotel, then decide you want to pop over to the superchargers 3 mins down the road and set them as the destination in the nav, the preconditioning wont have time to heat up the battery fully before you get there.
5) The Tesla nav, on high speed interstate, will typically have you stopping every 2 hours. This is when you stretch your legs and use the restroom. Typically we found that it would take us about 15 mins to do that and get back to the car which normally only wants 15-20mins of charging at most so you're not waiting much if at all. Your lunch/dinner stops mean you will be away from the car for at least 45minutes and your problem there will be getting back to it before it hits 100% and you start being charged idle fees. Many times we got back to the car with 96% charge, far, far more than the route planner wanted, and that was after eating pretty quick and settling the check before we finished eating...
6) Try and avoid sharing a Supercharger with another car (make sure you are on a different number, eg if you see a car on 1a don't use 1b, use 2a or 2b etc. the numbers are on the bottom, if there is no number then they don't share anyway.
7) Bring glass cleaner and some microfiber towels to clean your windshield, there likely won't be anything provided at the chargers to do so as there often is at gas stations.
8) You can check what facilities are at a Supercharger location using the built in Nav (click on the icons beneath the supercharger info card, for restaurants etc. Or use google/apple maps. In some locations the charhers are in hotel parking lots with no food etc nearby. You may want to go through a drive thru just before you stop to charge so you have something with you to eat/drink etc.
9) If you stop every 2 hours or so in your gas car for the restroom or drinks/snacks etc and a 45 minutes lunch, then a 10 hour gas trip (including stops) becomes 10.5 hours in a Tesla if you are good at optimizing.
10) Rock chips are a part of motoring life, however you can avoid 99% of them by keeping several lengths behind the vehicle in front, especially a truck. Most people in this country travel far too close to the vehicle in front, which is also why we have such big pile ups when something goes wrong...
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Really great advice on all points. Interestingly, on our recent trip we would have the same ICE vehicle pass us several times during the day (we were going slower due to having trailer). I am not sure that the hit vs ICE is always all that much. You tend to be more rested stopping every 2 hours and don't have to make it up.
LoneStarEve
Member
Being a bit of a car spotter I also noticed that either the same gas car/truck would come by us several times in the day or we'd pass by them.
I don't think there's much difference either unless you are the type to cannonball a run, travel 10-15mph over the limit and only stop when the gas tank is near empty. I doubt that's the average person...
I did 1,500 miles back in March.. 3 states. I used chargers at two hotels.. and Superchargers the rest of the time. I have not read through all the notes but a few thoughts.. People make a big deal about finding the 'fast" charger. Meh.. the M3 is rate limited anyways so I just didnt worry about it at all and just picked an easy stall. I did pay attention to my range and would double check with ABBR. This paid off in one case when the Tesla computer routed me to a charger that left me with 6%. The next SC was about 10 miles away which would have put me on 0% if there had been any issues.
The range is based on 60MPH.. in AZ, nobody went 60 other than big trucks and slow a** RVs.. everybody was running at least 75 and often times, 80+ if you wanted to stay with the flow of traffic.. That ruins your range
Keeping a bottle of windshield cleaner and good paper towels makes your life much easier with a clean wind screen. A case of bottled water is always a good thing.
I keep a crash pack in the car of things like saline solution to flush the contacts, asprin, nose spray etc.. that way I dont have to stop and go digging through the luggage.
In the frunk I had my tire inflator, a patch kit with some goop, spare valve cores etc.. chem stick lights, spare batteries.. a 300 watt power brick, mobile charger, AC adapters etc. Again, stuff i hope not to use but I dont want to have to unload the luggage to get to it if I need it.
I wear glasses and I bought clip on sunglasses in polarized, amber, brown and grey. That way I was cover no matter what the lighting conditions were. And we had super bright sun, rain, snow and haze on our trip.
bring CASH.. a few of the shops I stopped at didnt take any cards so it was cash on the barrel.
I brought a spare phone with a few apps pre-installed. Accidents happen.
Bring a keycard in your wallet even if you live on the phone key like i do. its not 100%
If you have access to borrow one, bring a Chad adapter. This opens up the ability to top off the car even if you are not at a super charger. I was at one SC with only 6 stalls, 2 of which were down and the rest were packed. It was far easier to go a few miles to a Chad station and charge there.. even at 40 Kw.
The range is based on 60MPH.. in AZ, nobody went 60 other than big trucks and slow a** RVs.. everybody was running at least 75 and often times, 80+ if you wanted to stay with the flow of traffic.. That ruins your range
Keeping a bottle of windshield cleaner and good paper towels makes your life much easier with a clean wind screen. A case of bottled water is always a good thing.
I keep a crash pack in the car of things like saline solution to flush the contacts, asprin, nose spray etc.. that way I dont have to stop and go digging through the luggage.
In the frunk I had my tire inflator, a patch kit with some goop, spare valve cores etc.. chem stick lights, spare batteries.. a 300 watt power brick, mobile charger, AC adapters etc. Again, stuff i hope not to use but I dont want to have to unload the luggage to get to it if I need it.
I wear glasses and I bought clip on sunglasses in polarized, amber, brown and grey. That way I was cover no matter what the lighting conditions were. And we had super bright sun, rain, snow and haze on our trip.
bring CASH.. a few of the shops I stopped at didnt take any cards so it was cash on the barrel.
I brought a spare phone with a few apps pre-installed. Accidents happen.
Bring a keycard in your wallet even if you live on the phone key like i do
. its not 100%If you have access to borrow one, bring a Chad adapter. This opens up the ability to top off the car even if you are not at a super charger. I was at one SC with only 6 stalls, 2 of which were down and the rest were packed. It was far easier to go a few miles to a Chad station and charge there.. even at 40 Kw.
The Cheyenne Supercharger site is a bit away from I-80, an early V2, and only 4 stalls. (And last time I was there, pre-COVID, one of the stalls was broken.) Tesla really needs to do an upgrade in the area. If possible, use Laramie and Sidney instead.
jkirkwood001
Active Member
roblab
Active Member
A second car charging does not affect the first car's charge rate, unless something has happened since I charged last week at the superchargers near me. The first car continues to charge at its optimal rate, reducing charging as the battery fills, and a second car charges at a lower rate, increasing charge as the first car needs less. BUT unless you insist on charging during peak usage times (which means when everybody else wants to charge) you'll have no trouble. On trips, I plan to hit the superchargers in the middle of the day, because everyone else wants to charge at night at the motel, and then I choose motels that are near superchargers or have L2 chargers that I can use late at night when everyone else is finished.
And then you have people who just park at a charging spot and don't plug in, so Tesla doesn't see them. Well, there are thoughtless, careless, unkind people everywhere, and my wife insists that spray paint on their windows won't change them.
@phishphan, I don't think you will need to worry about a ChaDeMo adapter on this trip (although if it is handy, certainly do borrow one). A maybe better option for the future, however, is a Tesla CCS1 adapter, which you can get from Korea now (search the site). More and better charging options than ChaDeMo.
RichAZ/CapeCod
Member
phishphan, you’ve gotten lots of good advice on this thread. So, at the risk of further beating a deceased steed I’ll add my two cents.
While I appreciate your newbie concerns you’ll be fine taking the Tesla. Really.
We’ve owned two EVs so far (Chevy Bolt, 2019 Premier and currently a Tesla MY). We have done long trips in both.
Bolt, Cape Cod to AZ. Used Electrify America. Mixed results. It was an “adventure.”
Tesla, AZ to Cape Cod and return. Piece of cake. The Supercharger system works as advertised. Ditto for a “short” hop from the Tucson area to San Diego and back. No issues.
The suggestion to pay attention to the trip range indicator (forget it’s actual name) is a good one. Very accurate.
As for letting your SoC get down to below 5%, well, I do understand the reason for the suggestion (faster charging speeds) but we have a hard floor of around 20% SoC for our trips, just in case. You pays your money and you takes your choice...
At any rate, if you take the Tesla you won’t regret your decision.
Best of luck,
Rich
PS
Heading to Cape Cod from AZ first week in June in our MY.
Only if he has the support enabled? Like I said, I didnt read the entire thread. The Chad works regardless of CCS status. Lowest common denominator. And I agree if you have the CCS support enabled, then the Korean CCS adapter is pretty slick. Better than the SETEC
We did this too. Especially for places like Wyoming and Nebraska and Iowa, where we suddenly were dealing with 60+ mph wind gusts that we hadn't anticipated. The extra charging time to ensure that we ended up over 20% was inconsequential.
Wow, one of the best trip rec threads I've seen. Lots of great advice.
And, yes, ABRP factors in elevation, as does the car's nav. ABRP's speed is what you set, a percentage above the posted limits. I use 13-15% above.
With an ABRP sub, and its wind data, I'm comfortable with running the charge target down to 12%, without it, I use 15%.
Below is the screen I like to use on my phone with ABRP. It shows the posted speed limit, 70mph, and the target speed, 80mph, which is 15% above posted. It shows the predicted SOC of 35% and the current SOC of 35%, and it shows the elevation of the road I'm traveling, and the predicted target of 15% SOC at my destination.
And the car's nav thinks my end SOC will be 23%, but that's because its prediction isn't factoring wind or that I'm driving 15% above the speed limit.
The car's nav optimizes for fewest stops. ABRP optimizes for fastest trip. Fastest trips are when you drive as FAST as you are comfortable with, and charge at low SOC levels, 10-15% up to about 65-70% SOC, due to the charge taper. If you subscribe to ABRP, which has a free 2wk trial, and I highly recommend, you also get wind data in its predictions. It'll make the estimate super-accurate. Without wind data, I've seen the estimate be as much as 15% off. So, if your destination goal is just 10%, you'll either run out, or you'll need to drive more slowly. For any long trips, with family, I'd definitely spring for ABRP's subscription, which is free for the trial period, and super cheap, monthly, afterward. I kept my sub after a 4400 mile trip, for a month, just so the developer would get a month's sub of $5. It was definitely worth $5 to have all that info.
And, yes, ABRP factors in elevation, as does the car's nav. ABRP's speed is what you set, a percentage above the posted limits. I use 13-15% above.
With an ABRP sub, and its wind data, I'm comfortable with running the charge target down to 12%, without it, I use 15%.
Below is the screen I like to use on my phone with ABRP. It shows the posted speed limit, 70mph, and the target speed, 80mph, which is 15% above posted. It shows the predicted SOC of 35% and the current SOC of 35%, and it shows the elevation of the road I'm traveling, and the predicted target of 15% SOC at my destination.
And the car's nav thinks my end SOC will be 23%, but that's because its prediction isn't factoring wind or that I'm driving 15% above the speed limit.
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4) Absolutely good advice. If you wait until morning to charge you will think something isn’t working.
6) Version 3 and urban (72kW) superchargers don’t share.
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