22kW Question

[Ruprekt]

This may be a dumb question (however I believe there's no such thing - as there's always someone else wondering for the same answer).

Theres a local 'free' 22kW charger which of course only offers me 11kW on my model 3.

Would I get the full 22kW if I purchased the CCS adapter (circa 200 quid) and plugged my cable (I have a 3phase mennekes cable) in?

Or would it not fit (as the pin config is different?)

 

[Zill]

In AC charging it is the cars converter that is limiting it, which in a Model 3 is 11kW. Doesn't matter what cables you plug into it, unless the chargepoint is DC, you will not get over (3x230Vx16A) which is 3 phase European AC 11kW.

 

[Durzel]

No.

Model 3s are only capable of charging at 11kW on AC.

A CCS Combo 2 adaptor won't convert AC into DC, my understanding is that it converts the CCS2 standard plug into the format that older Teslas (S/X) support?

edit: beaten

 

[C225]

No it wont as there won't be any DC input into the connector still just AC so you hit the max of 11kW anyway...

 

[Ruprekt]

Thanks for the replies chaps. Shame I can't get the 22kW, would be bloomin superb.

 

[Mr_Dave]

I’ve always found it a little odd that destination chargers are 22kW but the M3 was designed to AC charge at only 11kW max. I guess there’s a technical and logical reason for it as opposed to a financial (cars would cost more to build) one, though not being an electrician, I’ve no idea why charging at 22kW AC isn’t possible.

 

[Durzel]

I might be wrong but I think the current Model S can charge up to 16.5kW on AC, and earlier ones could actually charge at 22kW depending on spec.

 

[PatrickCH4313]

I might be wrong but I think the current Model S can charge up to 16.5kW on AC, and earlier ones could actually charge at 22kW depending on spec.

Correct ,Model S from 07/2017 built date have onboard charger of 17.5 kW /48 A.
For Home charging I use 11 kW / 16 A / 3 phase (= charge speed of 63 km/h).

 

[MovingSouth]

I’ve always found it a little odd that destination chargers are 22kW but the M3 was designed to AC charge at only 11kW max. I guess there’s a technical and logical reason for it as opposed to a financial (cars would cost more to build) one, though not being an electrician, I’ve no idea why charging at 22kW AC isn’t possible.

There are at least two reasons:

• Providing 11kW 3 phase and 7kW 2 phase can be done with just three 3.5kW on board chargers, configured with one per each phase for 11kW or with 2 to a single phase, for 7kW. So just a 50% overhead for 3 phase.
• Many countries provide a low current 3 phase supply to domestic properties, so there is a need for a low current 3 phase option in those areas. However, most couldn't cope with 3 x 32A.

The ZOE supports 22kW charging by using the motor coils as part of the charging circuit.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

I might be wrong but I think the current Model S can charge up to 16.5kW on AC, and earlier ones could actually charge at 22kW depending on spec.

Kind of right. Pre facelift MS had an 11kw on board charger but you could option a twin charger which gave you 22kw. It cost a few k as the electrics are quite hefty. These 11kw charger boards are also stacked to create the V2 superchargers.

The facelift MS and MX have 11 or 16.5kw as you say (24a on 3 phase), the option is ‘high power’ charger. The limit was largely set by the space in the MX and where they put it.

AC to DC electrics at high power aren’t cheap and I believe the basic logic is if you want more than 11kw you may as well go DC. I’ve only come across a few 22kw chargers over the years.

 

[Jason71]

I’ve always found it a little odd that destination chargers are 22kW but the M3 was designed to AC charge at only 11kW max. I guess there’s a technical and logical reason for it as opposed to a financial (cars would cost more to build) one, though not being an electrician, I’ve no idea why charging at 22kW AC isn’t possible.

onboard AC dc converters add cost and weight. the bigger the rating the more the penalty.
back when the S came out DC chargers were few and far between so maximising charge speed from AC was worth the weight /cost penalty.
Now not so much.

 

[MrBadger]

The Model 3 has 3 x 16A chargers. They combine 2 x 16A to give 32A / 7kW single phase, or use all 3 to give 3 x 16A = 11kW 3 phase. To get 22kW, it would require chargers with twice the power capacity, ie 3 x 32A. I would imagine very few locations require 3 x 32A chargers to make them worthwhile, so no point doing cost and size wise.

 

[icemankaka]

I have the q with a twist. I’ve got 22kw charging in the past (2015 MS), but when at tesco pod point since november or sth i’ve lost 22kw and would only charge at 11kw…. anyone knows why?

 

[init6]

Is it one particular charger or all pod points?

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

16a 3 phase cable?
Poor connection?
Failed onboard charger (for 22kw you’ll have twin chargers, one may have stopped working)?

 

[PITA]

I'm saving at the moment for a 50kW DC Rapid Charger for home use...

They cost about £7,000 but I quite fancy one to replace my 22kW Zappi (Zippi) charger. Prices 'might' come down hopefully.

For no other reason... than POWER !!!

EDIT : Visiting Guests would love it...

 

[GRiLLA]

EDIT : Visiting Guests would love it...

because they can leave more quickly?

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

50kw, 217A single phase, 72A on 3 phase, the DNO isn’t going to approve that in a hurry.

 

[MrBadger]

I'm saving at the moment for a 50kW DC Rapid Charger for home use...

They cost about £7,000 but I quite fancy one to replace my 22kW Zappi (Zippi) charger. Prices 'might' come down hopefully.

Does that £7k include the additional electricity network infrastructure costs? Table 2...

EDIT : Visiting Guests would love it...

because they can leave more quickly?

Presumably so they can fully charge their car whilst they pop over for a shower in the middle of a power cut.

 

[Fred2]

I have the q with a twist. I’ve got 22kw charging in the past (2015 MS), but when at tesco pod point since november or sth i’ve lost 22kw and would only charge at 11kw…. anyone knows why?

I've seen them derate them in the past & it took a while for the podpoint app to catchup with the new rate - there's a sainsbury's near me that has a 7kw charger limited to 3.6kw.