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250kW supercharger disaapointment

T3SF

New Member
Apr 9, 2021
3
2
United States
So what's the story with the new 250kW V3 superchargers? Is 250kW a myth or is it real?
I have a 2021 Model 3 LR. A new 250kW supercharger opened up nearby so I was excited to test it. I went from 30%-90% capacity in about 40 minutes. When I first plugged it in it was charging at 130-140kW for a few minutes, then glided down and most of the charging occurred at 70-80kW and near the end (as expected) slowed down to 40kW. It never even approached 250kW even in the low to middle range of charge. Basically this was not too different than my previous experience at a 72kW supercharger. Needless to say I was disappointed. Tesla says the charging power you can receive depends on the age and condition of the battery, and the temperature. Well my car is new (2 months, 2800 miles), the outside temp was 60F and I had preconditioned the battery for supercharge. So I think conditions were right for the most rapid charge. From my real world experience there is not much difference between the levels of superchargers. So is 250kW a myth or am I missing something?
 

nwdiver

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2013
8,286
10,956
United States
So what's the story with the new 250kW V3 superchargers? Is 250kW a myth or is it real?
I have a 2021 Model 3 LR. A new 250kW supercharger opened up nearby so I was excited to test it. I went from 30%-90% capacity in about 40 minutes. When I first plugged it in it was charging at 130-140kW for a few minutes, then glided down and most of the charging occurred at 70-80kW and near the end (as expected) slowed down to 40kW. It never even approached 250kW even in the low to middle range of charge. Basically this was not too different than my previous experience at a 72kW supercharger. Needless to say I was disappointed. Tesla says the charging power you can receive depends on the age and condition of the battery, and the temperature. Well my car is new (2 months, 2800 miles), the outside temp was 60F and I had preconditioned the battery for supercharge. So I think conditions were right for the most rapid charge. From my real world experience there is not much difference between the levels of superchargers. So is 250kW a myth or am I missing something?

Screen Shot 2021-06-13 at 11.14.54 AM.png
 

GHammer

What a long strange trip its been.
Feb 1, 2016
949
2,301
Wren, Oregon
This is a very common but errant complaint. People underestimate the amount of time needed to warm up the battery to accept a full charge rate. 60F is quite cold for the battery and the Model 3 does not have a dedicated battery heater, it takes quite a while of high speed driving to fully warm the battery. 250kw is not a myth, seen it many times while driving cross country.
 

Big Dog

Active Member
Mar 7, 2016
1,643
1,637
Irvine, CA
I had previously only charged on cold day (this past winter) and never got above 200 kW, but two days ago I hit 241 when it was 75 degrees outside and battery started to pre-warm on the way, but not sure how much that helped as the SC was only 3 miles from where I was staying (and teh car had been sitting for 3 hours).
 

Park2670

Member
Feb 17, 2013
613
270
Utah
It takes a lot of criteria for your car to hit the actual 250kW limit, but you got twice the power of the 72kW Urban Charger. I have hit 250kW several times and really enjoy the shortened charging on my long drives.
 
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Chisale

Member
Sep 28, 2019
237
223
Ohio
I always precondition the battery when driving to a SC and I would say that very rough hand the time it takes to charge from 10-20% to 90% on V3 vs V2 is about 15-20 minutes less. That's not a scientific assesment since there are so many variables but with V2 you most definitely have time to take a restroom break AND check email and social media. With V3 you might have time for 2 of those things but you better not dwaddle.
 
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theothertom

Member
May 9, 2020
378
265
South Carolina
A new 250kW supercharger opened up nearby
the outside temp was 60F and I had preconditioned the battery for supercharge
Your battery may not have had enough time to fully precondition. I've seen preconditioning come on 60 miles before I arrived at a supercharger (outside temp around 60F).
The other possibility is that sometimes V3 superchargers, especially new ones, are limited. Maybe they want to make sure things are working well before they allow them to deliver full power?
 

drtimhill

Active Member
Apr 25, 2019
1,946
2,446
Seattle
So what's the story with the new 250kW V3 superchargers? Is 250kW a myth or is it real?
I have a 2021 Model 3 LR. A new 250kW supercharger opened up nearby so I was excited to test it. I went from 30%-90% capacity in about 40 minutes. When I first plugged it in it was charging at 130-140kW for a few minutes, then glided down and most of the charging occurred at 70-80kW and near the end (as expected) slowed down to 40kW. It never even approached 250kW even in the low to middle range of charge. Basically this was not too different than my previous experience at a 72kW supercharger. Needless to say I was disappointed. Tesla says the charging power you can receive depends on the age and condition of the battery, and the temperature. Well my car is new (2 months, 2800 miles), the outside temp was 60F and I had preconditioned the battery for supercharge. So I think conditions were right for the most rapid charge. From my real world experience there is not much difference between the levels of superchargers. So is 250kW a myth or am I missing something?
You say the supercharger was "nearby". Did you drive enough beforehand to pre-condition the battery? (Did you even use the nav system to drive there, which is necessary to trigger preconditioning?) If not, then the car would limit the power until the battery was warm enough, and chances are you had already passed the percentage where higher powers are allowed before that happened. You will only see the full peak when BOTH the SoC is in the correct range AND the battery is sufficiently preconditioned.
 

T3SF

New Member
Apr 9, 2021
3
2
United States
Thanks for all the info. I had used navigation to precondition, and drove about 15 minutes before I got to the supercharger. I didn't realize heating up from 60F to 75 (that's the ideal, right?) would take as long as some of you guys seem to indicate, and I'm not sure if 5 or 10 degrees colder than ideal incurs that much of a loss in kWattage. The main thing I learned from the above answers is that the kW to SoC curve is much much steeper than I had thought and I guess that accounts for most of my disappointment. Most batteries in other gadgets are not like this. I wonder why this is so. Is it the nature of the battery chemistry, or has Tesla built into it this restrictive slope as some kind of protective or longevity feature?

My bottom line is the time not the kW. I don't really get a thrill out of seeing the meter indicate it's pulling 250kW. I mainly want the car to charge faster overall. But it does seem like the high current is just a transient phenomenon during a very narrow region of the SoC. I had heard Tesla quote that the V3 should charge the M3 LR from 5-90% in 37 minutes, but I think I was way off that. It seems like the V3 is a technical advance, perhaps the non-sharing aspect of it is useful, but the real-life practical improvement seems incremental. I wish they would make advances in the battery technology so that the SoC curve would be much less steep.
 

LoudMusic

Member
Jul 21, 2020
536
597
Arkansas
Thanks for all the info. I had used navigation to precondition, and drove about 15 minutes before I got to the supercharger. I didn't realize heating up from 60F to 75 (that's the ideal, right?) would take as long as some of you guys seem to indicate, and I'm not sure if 5 or 10 degrees colder than ideal incurs that much of a loss in kWattage. The main thing I learned from the above answers is that the kW to SoC curve is much much steeper than I had thought and I guess that accounts for most of my disappointment. Most batteries in other gadgets are not like this. I wonder why this is so. Is it the nature of the battery chemistry, or has Tesla built into it this restrictive slope as some kind of protective or longevity feature?

My bottom line is the time not the kW. I don't really get a thrill out of seeing the meter indicate it's pulling 250kW. I mainly want the car to charge faster overall. But it does seem like the high current is just a transient phenomenon during a very narrow region of the SoC. I had heard Tesla quote that the V3 should charge the M3 LR from 5-90% in 37 minutes, but I think I was way off that. It seems like the V3 is a technical advance, perhaps the non-sharing aspect of it is useful, but the real-life practical improvement seems incremental. I wish they would make advances in the battery technology so that the SoC curve would be much less steep.

I think batteries in other things such as phones, laptops, and power tools, actually ARE like that but we aren't given the means to monitor it. Years ago when Samsung (or maybe other phone manufacturer) talked a lot about their "quick charge" capability while on the go. It was all in the middle range of the SoC, similar to EVs, because the battery could take a much higher current during that portion of charging. You could get from 10% to 80% in like 15 minutes. But to fully charge the phone still took an hour or more because they were trying to keep the battery from exploding by slowing down charge near the end.
 
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masotime

Member
Sep 14, 2020
75
70
San Francisco
I didn't realize heating up from 60F to 75 (that's the ideal, right?)
The ideal is 104F (40C) - this takes quite a long time - usually at least 1/2 an hour - so it's most effective when you're doing a long road trip, just make sure your Tesla's destination is set to the next supercharger so it can time the pre-conditioning correctly. If not, the Tesla will try to use about 6-7kW of power during supercharging to heat it to 104F - annoying but unfortunately true.
 

roblab

Active Member
Jul 15, 2008
3,654
2,721
Angwin (Napa Valley) CA
Shorter distance between charging, and therefore charging in the bottom 80% or so of your battery, is better for the battery and quicker than charging it full. Waiting to bring it up to 100% takes a bunch of time and is hard on the battery, which is why Tesla slows it down so much. With so many chargers now, it should be unnecessary to charge it up to anywhere near full. And with most cars having range of 300 or so miles, you're only talking about one or two charges after leaving home. Fitting that charge into your lunch stop and coffee breaks helps in saving charging time.
 
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psuKinger

Member
Jul 3, 2020
105
102
Pennsylvania
Thanks for all the info. I had used navigation to precondition, and drove about 15 minutes before I got to the supercharger. I didn't realize heating up from 60F to 75 (that's the ideal, right?) would take as long as some of you guys seem to indicate, and I'm not sure if 5 or 10 degrees colder than ideal incurs that much of a loss in kWattage. The main thing I learned from the above answers is that the kW to SoC curve is much much steeper than I had thought and I guess that accounts for most of my disappointment. Most batteries in other gadgets are not like this. I wonder why this is so. Is it the nature of the battery chemistry, or has Tesla built into it this restrictive slope as some kind of protective or longevity feature?

My bottom line is the time not the kW. I don't really get a thrill out of seeing the meter indicate it's pulling 250kW. I mainly want the car to charge faster overall. But it does seem like the high current is just a transient phenomenon during a very narrow region of the SoC. I had heard Tesla quote that the V3 should charge the M3 LR from 5-90% in 37 minutes, but I think I was way off that. It seems like the V3 is a technical advance, perhaps the non-sharing aspect of it is useful, but the real-life practical improvement seems incremental. I wish they would make advances in the battery technology so that the SoC curve would be much less steep.
I bought my Model Y during the early months of the pandemic, so I took my first road trip with it over memorial day weekend. On the trip we hit both V2 and V3 superchargers, and my experience was:

- Giving tesla an address to take me to a supercharger did NOT trigger pre-conditioning. Giving Tesla an address that triggered tesla to route me to a supercharger to charge the car in order to get to my destination triggered pre-conditioning.

- A little blue message would pop-up on screen indicating battery pre-conditioning would take place. It first began about an hour out from my pre-determined super-charger, it would run for a while, and then after 20 minutes or so turn off... and then intermittently back on-and-off as needed in order to arrive "pre-conditioned" and ready to go.

- In my extremely limited experience, the curve posted above appears to be dead-nuts accurate. One time we hit a V3 supercharger at about 32%-33% SoC and a pre-conditioned battery, and my charge rate ramped up and peaked at 212 kW for only a couple seconds before dipping down to more like 190 kW and slowly ramped down from there...

- I share your desire for faster charging. But, I'm also the kind of person who buys a new car and owns it for 10-12 years and 175,000-200,000 miles. And if fast(er) charging is hard(er) on the battery and is gonna wear down the life expectancy unnecessarily hard, I'd rather they ramp that rate down as-needed and make me wait a few minutes longer... I'm a go-go-go-nobody-drink-anything-no-bathroom-breaks kinda guy living in a Dad-Life-Family-of-4-with-small-kids world. We stop. Regularly. We buy snacks. We play video games or watch netflix while we charge. We relax and *enjoy* the time... it is what it is. We're early adopters.... it's not my preferred/default mode of operation, it's against my nature, but it's where I'm at in life and where we're at technology-wise, and I accept it....
 
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golferguy

Member
Jan 30, 2021
71
62
SE Florida
I have a 2018 M3. I have seen 210KW on V3 charger, it does go high. But it doesn't stay there very long. In fact comparing V3 to V2 assuming no power sharing on V2 charges the M3 battery from 20% SOC to 90% SOC, V3 is about 5 mins faster. That's about it. These comparisons done in Florida in summer so temp is hot, where the battery likes it.

Lack of power sharing is the big gotcha.
 

MorrisonHiker

S 100D 2021.32.20
Mar 8, 2015
10,145
9,665
Colorado
We have no problem hitting 250 kW on our Model Y (and previously on the Model 3) when we supercharge at v3 Superchargers during road trips. It doesn't stay at 250 kW long but it is easily achievable if the battery is at the optimal temperature and SoC. We've even been able to hit 187 kW at a v3 Supercharger with an "old" 2017 Model S.
 
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Earl

Member
Jan 22, 2014
231
276
USA
I've hit 250 KW on V3 Superchargers with our 2018 Model 3 many times. As others have pointed out, it only lasts for a few minutes before tapering and only if you arrive at low SoC with the battery pre-conditioned. I too prefer that Tesla take care of the battery as the first priority and fast charging as second. Whether you run the car until the wheels fall off, lease it, or trade it in, it will still be most economical for us, the customers, if Tesla does it this way.
Even V2 charging speeds haven't prevented me from driving over 1100 miles in a day or coast-to-coast (VA to CA) in 3 days.
149KW_supercharging.PNG
 
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