298 miles is my new 100% (LR RWD)

[Sparky4life]

I have a LR RWD (vin 58xxx) with 2019.5.15 firmware. On Feb. 13th, I was getting 308 miles of range at 100% charge. Over the course of the next 3 days, my range at 100% charge has dropped to ~298 miles.

Here are the 4 charges I did over that period (to 80%, projected to 100%) along with the displayed rated range at the completion of the charge:

The ~20 charges I have done since then have all been consistently around 298 miles (projected based on an 80% charge). I tried discharging to ~20% followed by a charge to 100%, three times, as recommended by Tesla to 'recalibrate the BMS'. In both cases, the max was still at 298 miles:

3/3 charged from 19% to 100%, added 242 miles; 242/0.81 = 299 miles
3/7 charged from 23% to 100%, added 230 miles; 230/0.77 = 299 miles

The 2019.5.15 firmware update did not change my numbers at all. I'm concerned that I may have a bad cell in the pack?

 

[Sparky4life]

I'm taking it in to Tesla today and I will report back what they say.

 

[Sparky4life]

Just got back from Tesla service. They did a battery check and found no problems. The service adviser seemed new and uninformed. He told me that the rated miles depend on 'lots of factors including driving style'. When I pointed out that rated miles are just supposed to be based on current capacity of the battery he said, "well, I don't know all of the science behind it." He also said that he's been told that you should always take the battery down to near ZERO before recharging, EVERY TIME. I told him I'd never heard that before.

So, I'm stuck at 298, the 5.15 update did not give me a bump, and Tesla has no answers or insights. I guess I will have to wait and see.

 

[zhu-]

Have you tried speaking with another service advisor? Majority of the ones I've spoke to had more misinformation than any other source.

 

[davidalai]

I charged to 100% for the first time since the 2019.5.15 update and got to 316 miles. Kinda disappointed because I wanted to reach that 325 miles that was announced. I got my Model 3 Long Range RWD in August and currently at about 11,300 miles driven. Could it be battery degradation already?

 

[Sparky4life]

Have you tried speaking with another service advisor? Majority of the ones I've spoke to had more misinformation than any other source.

I thought about that but decided I would probably get the same speech.

 

[Sparky4life]

I charged to 100% for the first time since the 2019.5.15 update and got to 316 miles. Kinda disappointed because I wanted to reach that 325 miles that was announced. I got my Model 3 Long Range RWD in August and currently at about 11,300 miles driven. Could it be battery degradation already?

It seems there are two possible reasons you don't see the increase; 1) real physical battery degradation or 2) the BMS loses calibration over time. I suspect that in most cases it's the latter but there doesn't seem to be a way to reliably tell the difference...

 

[Chris350]

Today, I charged at a SC from 40%-100%...

When I charged before to 100%, I was seeing 310

After getting the 5.15, today it charged to 314....

The interesting thing is when it hit 314 (100%), the car showed "Calculating" in the "Remaining Time" area of the screen...

It never went to "Supercharging Complete"...

I let the car continue to charge for about another 15 minutes.... It never went above 314 and it never indicated that charging was complete... The screen did show that it was still getting a charge as if the car was still charging but it also stopped charging me money...

Strange reaction.... I guess a service call is needed...

 

[Darmie]

Only one true way to determine battery capacity. Fill it up and run it dry. When or if you do this, ensure your 12v battery is good and that you are near a charger when low. Calculate range under normal driving. Even then, miles driven with power available has so many other variables like temperature, wind, ect. Bejorn created several videos on this same concern with his model X. Anything else is just a mathematical calculation.

 

[davidalai]

Today, I charged at a SC from 40%-100%...

When I charged before to 100%, I was seeing 310

After getting the 5.15, today it charged to 314....

The interesting thing is when it hit 314 (100%), the car showed "Calculating" in the "Remaining Time" area of the screen...

It never went to "Supercharging Complete"...

I let the car continue to charge for about another 15 minutes.... It never went above 314 and it never indicated that charging was complete... The screen did show that it was still getting a charge as if the car was still charging but it also stopped charging me money...

Strange reaction.... I guess a service call is needed...

Please share with us what you get from the Service Call. My car did the same exact thing last night. It reached 315 and showed "calculating" for the longest time. It actually reached to 316. But it remained at "Calculating" and I got impatient and stopped it.

 

[Superspectral]

Do not worry about short term trends in the battery pack(1 month). The Tesla reported range is just the Tesla %SOC multiplied by its EPA range. It is not a guess o meter like what the Chevy Bolt shows. The %SOC is trying to estimate the total energy in the battery pack by measuring the voltage across the entire pack and groups of cells. Tesla defines a minimum voltage (0%) and a maximum voltage (100%) which has to do with the health of the cells. You don't want to go over the minimum or maximum or it will hurt the cells. Each time your car discharges it tries to measure the net change in energy usage between charges. But this is very imprecise. If you only discharged driving it wouldn't be so bad. *BUT* you are constantly discharging then regeneratively charging. So estimating the net change in energy between 2 voltages (when you last finished charging and when you started charging again) can get a lot of error.

Because of all this ambiguity - and the model 3 performance never matches the 310 range - I just prefer to set the display to % - not miles.

Your graph shows a line at 300 miles after 12000 miles of driving. That is about a 3.2% drop. IMHO it is probably impossible to really be sure your battery has dropped until is down at least 10% for several months. There is a pretty good chance your trend will rebound some.

Keep in mind Tesla only warrants 70% capacity after 100,000 miles. That sounds like a lot but keep in mind your LR car is in worse case scenario be like a SR car (almost exactly) after 100,000 miles or Tesla will give you a new battery. The SR battery is still going to be usable for day to day trips or for long range trips - super chargers are close enough to cover you. You'll just charge more often. But that is *way* in the future and may never be that bad.

Watching your battery drop a few percent is can get to be like hypochondria. All worry about every little change with no benefit. When something goes bad - it will be more obvious - like a sudden 20% drop.

 

[StellarRat]

I have a LR RWD (vin 58xxx) with 2019.5.15 firmware. On Feb. 13th, I was getting 308 miles of range at 100% charge. Over the course of the next 3 days, my range at 100% charge has dropped to ~298 miles.

View attachment 386291
Here are the 4 charges I did over that period (to 80%, projected to 100%) along with the displayed rated range at the completion of the charge:

View attachment 386292

The ~20 charges I have done since then have all been consistently around 298 miles (projected based on an 80% charge). I tried discharging to ~20% followed by a charge to 100%, three times, as recommended by Tesla to 'recalibrate the BMS'. In both cases, the max was still at 298 miles:

3/3 charged from 19% to 100%, added 242 miles; 242/0.81 = 299 miles
3/7 charged from 23% to 100%, added 230 miles; 230/0.77 = 299 miles

The 2019.5.15 firmware update did not change my numbers at all. I'm concerned that I may have a bad cell in the pack?

Did you take temperature into account? Or does the program do that for you?

 

[Superspectral]

Another way to look at it: How you drive, how you use heating and cooling, and the outside temperature has a lot more do with it. I got a Chevy Bolt for my teenage son. It has an EPA of 238 miles. On a nice 75 deg day, babying it, with minimal A/C I can get maybe 260+. Hypermilers get nearly 300. On most days here in Michigan it has been *cold*. My son doesn't use regen well, drives only a few miles at a time, and keeps the air at 75F or hotter with the seat warmer on. So he only gets 120 miles on the guess-o-meter at 90% charge. It doesn't matter. He can still drive to school every day, his instrument practice 10 miles away, and his lacrosse games 30 miles away whenever he wants. He doesn't complain. Even though the range is really really bad compared to what I could get in summer - it still works and he doesn't worry.

 

[Sparky4life]

I'm not worried about actual range, I just want to understand if it's real degradation or just the inaccuracies of the capacity estimation algorithm

 

[jjrandorin]

Please share with us what you get from the Service Call. My car did the same exact thing last night. It reached 315 and showed "calculating" for the longest time. It actually reached to 316. But it remained at "Calculating" and I got impatient and stopped it.

"Calculating" is the BMS doing the battery pack calibration etc. It could take a LONG time (and should probably not be done at a super charger because of time). You need to let it finish that calculation.

 

[TampaRich]

Was charging to 278 mi @80% before 2019.5.15. After, it’s goes to 290 here in Florida. It’s possible that the new software update better reflects climate and the use of the heater. Could be the reason for lower miles in colder climates.

 

[lolder]

Charged on my UMC to 100% after 5.15 and miles displayed was 318. Car is almost 8 months old with 8200 miles. Only the third time car charged to 100%. That's about 2% which is consistent with predicted 2-3% loss in first 6 months.

Was charging to 278 mi @80% before 2019.5.15. After, it’s goes to 290 here in Florida. It’s possible that the new software update better reflects climate and the use of the heater. Could be the reason for lower miles in colder climates.

You must mean 90%.

 

[VLTWGGN]

My P3D actually has the same behavior. Charges to 298mi at 100% SoC, but supercharging never completes and it remains calculating for a while. I just unplug it and move on with life.

 

[WarpedOne]

I'm not worried about actual range, I just want to understand if it's real degradation or just the inaccuracies of the capacity estimation algorithm

It is not degradation of a pack but it could be a defect of a single cell. The service should be able to diagnose and found out.
Battery capacity is not like a volume of a bottle, it is more like a length of a stretched spring.

I just unplug it and move on with life.

This.

 

[lolder]

There are about 4000 cells in the battery and one bad one would hardly be noticed. The battery is not serviceable except for replacement.