2nd Onboard Charger available for purchase for already delivered cars

[jerry33]

I wonder if after some time the "Add Supercharging" option will appear and if so how much would that be? They have been a bit more strongly worded though when it comes to pointing out that SC can't be added later (as opposed to 2nd charger where they have been saying more "you may or may not be able to add it later").

My understanding, from what I've read, is that adding a second charger means installing the second charger and plugging in a couple of wires. Adding supercharging means changing out part or all of the battery wiring. I don't see them adding supercharging to a non-supercharged car. It would probably be less expensive to sell your non-supercharged car and purchase a used one with supercharging.

 

[FredTMC]

My understanding, from what I've read, is that adding a second charger means installing the second charger and plugging in a couple of wires. Adding supercharging means changing out part or all of the battery wiring. I don't see them adding supercharging to a non-supercharged car. It would probably be less expensive to sell your non-supercharged car and purchase a used one with supercharging.

Yep. Tesla is charging $2100 MORE than the factory install of the 2nd charger. While I fully expected TM to charge more for the "after factory install", $2100 more is "excessive". Why? How many hours to you think the installation will take at the TM service center? Per Jerry33, it's not difficult. My guess its a couple hours at the most. Lets use 3 hours as an example. That's $700/hour of shop time at the TM service center. That's excessive markup

 

[brianman]

Yep. Tesla is charging $2100 MORE than the factory install of the 2nd charger. While I fully expected TM to charge more for the "after factory install", $2100 more is "excessive". Why? How many hours to you think the installation will take at the TM service center? Per Jerry33, it's not difficult. My guess its a couple hours at the most. Lets use 3 hours as an example. That's $700/hour of shop time at the TM service center. That's excessive markup

Until and unless we know how much of the car must be "unpacked" to access the required locations after vehicle delivery, it's a bit...bold... of you to say that.

Many things are cheap to do when the vehicle is "open" but much harder to do (correctly) once it's been buttoned up.


As an example, installing a new fan in my laptop a few years ago took like 3 hours because I had to take the screen off, open up the chassis, etc. The pictures mid-way look like I disassembled a Terminator.

 

[gregincal]

Certainly if I expected to use the second charger, then having ordered it ahead of time would surely have been better. I'm still expecting after a few years I will find there was almost never a time when it would have come in handy (if for instance I had payed $1500 and found I used it 3 times in 5 years I wouldn't be happy). The option to add it later is just a failsafe in case I'm wrong.

 

[dsm363]

Certainly if I expected to use the second charger, then having ordered it ahead of time would surely have been better. I'm still expecting after a few years I will find there was almost never a time when it would have come in handy (if for instance I had payed $1500 and found I used it 3 times in 5 years I wouldn't be happy). The option to add it later is just a failsafe in case I'm wrong.

This is a good strategy. If you live in an area where you can't find a single 70 or 80A public charger or don't know anyone with a HPWC on a long route you take frequently, I think the second charger can be dropped unless you just want it for added insurance. The fact that it can be added later now makes it even more of an option, even if it is extremely expensive to do so.

 

[jerry33]

Until and unless we know how much of the car must be "unpacked" to access the required locations after vehicle delivery, it's a bit...bold... of you to say that.

Right. I wasn't trying to denigrate the amount of work required for adding the twin chargers, only trying to say that adding supercharging is probably two orders of magnitude more difficult. I don't know how much work is involved in removing the back seats and whatever else is in the way of installing the second charger.

Point is, that you need to be really, really sure you don't need the options before you decline them because they will be much more expensive later. The exceptions would be the shelf, HPWC and paint armour. Just about everything else will cost much more afterwards.

 

[dgmanny]

I have few questions on the dual charger as I am about to finalize my order. The supercharging bypasses the onboard chargers, so the benefit of the dual charger is charging up to 20kW at home or at charging stations. I wasn't planning on using dual chargers at home, so I am interested in the potential use while on the road.

Will the car with a dual charger basically accept up to 80amps from any charging source, versus 40amp with the single charger? Or, will it only charge up to 80a connected to a HPWC?

At home: I have a 60amp service in the garage, which i wasn't planning on upgrading to 100amp. With a single charger, it would pull 40a, backed by a 50a breaker. How does the set up work if there is a dual charger installed without an HPWC? What keeps the car from trying to pull up to 80a and blowing the breaker? Is there a way to get more than 40a? Say, have the car pull 50a, backed by a 60a breaker?

Away from home: Are there charging stations in the US above 40amp? are there plans for higher power charging stations? Is the J1772 (which appears to the be standard for chargepoint,etc) rated up to 80amps? I havent seen any charge point locations around me above 30amps.

Thanks

 

[ElSupreme]

I have few questions on the dual charger as I am about to finalize my order. The supercharging bypasses the onboard chargers, so the benefit of the dual charger is charging up to 20kW at home or at charging stations. I wasn't planning on using dual chargers at home, so I am interested in the potential use while on the road.

Will the car with a dual charger basically accept up to 80amps from any charging source, versus 40amp with the single charger? Or, will it only charge up to 80a connected to a HPWC?

At home: I have a 60amp service in the garage, which i wasn't planning on upgrading to 100amp. With a single charger, it would pull 40a, backed by a 50a breaker. How does the set up work if there is a dual charger installed without an HPWC? What keeps the car from trying to pull up to 80a and blowing the breaker? Is there a way to get more than 40a? Say, have the car pull 50a, backed by a 60a breaker?

Away from home: Are there charging stations in the US above 40amp? are there plans for higher power charging stations? Is the J1772 (which appears to the be standard for chargepoint,etc) rated up to 80amps? I havent seen any charge point locations around me above 30amps.

Thanks

Dual chargers allow you to pull at most 250 VAC (same as single charger) and up to 80A (double single charger). This will only help you with the HPWC or another high powered EVSE (say a 70 or 80 A EVSE with J1772 on it). The UMC cord will only accept 50A nominal (40A continuous) recepticals so it will always limit you to 40A max. So it effectively limits you to 10kW or 250V at 40A.

 

[dgmanny]

Dual chargers allow you to pull at most 250 VAC (same as single charger) and up to 80A (double single charger). This will only help you with the HPWC or another high powered EVSE (say a 70 or 80 A EVSE with J1772 on it). The UMC cord will only accept 50A nominal (40A continuous) recepticals so it will always limit you to 40A max. So it effectively limits you to 10kW or 250V at 40A.

Thanks. For charging stations, is there some type of handshake between the esve and the car to know whether to limit the pull from the car? e.g. at a 30amp charging station?

 

[mitch672]

Thanks. For charging stations, is there some type of handshake between the esve and the car to know whether to limit the pull from the car? e.g. at a 30amp charging station?

This is a Wiki on how the J-1772 protocol works, it's what Tesla uses. The EVSE tells the onboard charger the maximum current availble, the charger has to comply with that maximum.

http://code.google.com/p/open-evse/wiki/J1772Basics

 

[dgmanny]

This is a Wiki on how the J-1772 protocol works, it's what Tesla uses. The EVSE tells the onboard charger the maximum current availble, the charger has to comply with that maximum.

http://code.google.com/p/open-evse/wiki/J1772Basics

Thanks!

 

[aviators99]

Away from home: Are there charging stations in the US above 40amp? are there plans for higher power charging stations? Is the J1772 (which appears to the be standard for chargepoint,etc) rated up to 80amps? I havent seen any charge point locations around me above 30amps.
Thanks

There are some, but they are few. Most of them are in California. Canada has many of them. I figure that as the Model S becomes more popular and other high-current capable EVs come out, they will start showing up. That is one of the reasons I got the twin chargers. Some others are: resale (validated by the after-manufacture pricing here), the HPWC (already have wished it wasn't backordered a couple of times), and the ability to carry my UMC around with me without having to buy an extra one ($500). The UMC reason is really due to the HPWC, but I wouldn't buy the HPWC without the twin chargers.

 

[gregincal]

There are some, but they are few. Most of them are in California. Canada has many of them. I figure that as the Model S becomes more popular and other high-current capable EVs come out, they will start showing up.

Possibly, but even with dual chargers it's not like you get a great charge rate. I'm still betting in the future you will see much more DC charging than high-current AC (already in many places it's easier to find CHAdeMO chargers than 70A J1772). AC is fine for overnight charging, but DC charging is what you want for on the road. We just need a standard that everybody agrees on. We'll see, but that's the bet I took when I didn't order the dual chargers.

 

[jkirkebo]

Will the car with a dual charger basically accept up to 80amps from any charging source, versus 40amp with the single charger? Or, will it only charge up to 80a connected to a HPWC?

It will charge up to 80A from any source. The included UMC is however restricted to 40A so you need another box/cable to get more than 40A. For example a public 80A J1772 charger. Or the twin 14-50 EVSE somebody built to take advantage of 2 14-50 sockets.

At home: I have a 60amp service in the garage, which i wasn't planning on upgrading to 100amp. With a single charger, it would pull 40a, backed by a 50a breaker. How does the set up work if there is a dual charger installed without an HPWC? What keeps the car from trying to pull up to 80a and blowing the breaker? Is there a way to get more than 40a? Say, have the car pull 50a, backed by a 60a breaker?

The UMC will restrict to 40A with a 14-50 socket/adapter, a 14-60 is not supported. If you want 48A (max legal from 60A service) you have two choices. Either get a HPWC (it can be dip switch set to 48A max) or a Clipper Creek CS-60 J1772 EVSE (but then you have to use the J1772 adapter and the HPWC is also cheaper). I would get the HPWC as you then can keep the UMC in the car all the time.

 

[bosgig]

. . .Away from home: Are there charging stations in the US above 40amp? are there plans for higher power charging stations? Is the J1772 (which appears to the be standard for chargepoint,etc) rated up to 80amps? I havent seen any charge point locations around me above 30amps.

I've yet to find a public charging station over 30 amps in New England. I went with a single charger because I didn't need the HPWC at home and really couldn't see any other use for the twin. Seeing the aftermarket pricing caused some second thoughts initially, but as I've thought about it more there really isn't any reason I can see to get it around here, other than if you're doing the HPWC. I'm guessing there will be more superchargers in New England five years from now than 70 amp public chargers. If I find eventually that I need it, I'll upgrade then; until then, I'll save the money and buy. . .a rear floor mat? Sorry, that's another thread.

 

[jerry33]

I've yet to find a public charging station over 30 amps in New England. I went with a single charger because I didn't need the HPWC at home and really couldn't see any other use for the twin. Seeing the aftermarket pricing caused some second thoughts initially, but as I've thought about it more there really isn't any reason I can see to get it around here, other than if you're doing the HPWC.

If you take a vacation in Canada, there are 70 kWh Sun Country EVSEs all over.

 

[dgmanny]

I've yet to find a public charging station over 30 amps in New England. I went with a single charger because I didn't need the HPWC at home and really couldn't see any other use for the twin. Seeing the aftermarket pricing caused some second thoughts initially, but as I've thought about it more there really isn't any reason I can see to get it around here, other than if you're doing the HPWC. I'm guessing there will be more superchargers in New England five years from now than 70 amp public chargers. If I find eventually that I need it, I'll upgrade then; until then, I'll save the money and buy. . .a rear floor mat? Sorry, that's another thread.

I am thinking the same way as you. I have 60amp service in my garage, so the 40am single charger is perfect. I can't see upgrading my service as I am going to get the 85kwhr battery and won't need a quick turnaround for charging at home. So, it comes down to high power esve charging away from home.