TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

3.0 Battery Longevity

Discussion in 'Roadster' started by bolosky, Feb 14, 2017.

Tags:
  1. hcsharp

    hcsharp Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Messages:
    3,092
    Location:
    Vermont
    The BRA specifically states that you get a 56kWh battery. The R80 was almost 80kWh. That was the justification for charging $6k. If they're not charging extra for the BRA then probably the so-called 3.5 pack is only 56kWh.
     
    • Informative x 1
  2. ICON

    ICON Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2015
    Messages:
    135
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Is it worth waiting two years for this 3.5 ?
    That is the question...
     
  3. m0rph

    m0rph Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2014
    Messages:
    648
    Location:
    Belgium
    Making a 3.5 with same capacity as they made batteries back in 2006? That would make no sense.. Unless it's significantly lighter...
    And no way people would pay the full price (29k) for only some weight reduction.
     
  4. Carl W

    Carl W 2008, #311 thunder gray 1.5

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2016
    Messages:
    111
    Location:
    laguna beach, ca
    If they used the Model 3 type of battery density, then I think a 56 kwh pack would be at least 300 pounds less than the original pack. Isn't the energy density now over 30% higher than before? That would decrease car weight over 10% and I bet would make a noticeable increase in acceleration and probably a very small increase in range over the original 244 miles. I'm not saying that I wouldn't prefer the extra range of an 80 kwh pack, but it would be compelling in a different way.
     
  5. dhrivnak

    dhrivnak Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2011
    Messages:
    3,673
    Location:
    NE Tennessee
    The challenge is the Model 3 battery is taller and will not fit unless they completely redesign and remake the packs. Possible but also likely expensive. I hope they do something soon before the original packs start to fail. That will not be good PR for Tesla or the Model 3. As many people keep a car for over 10 years.
     
  6. hcsharp

    hcsharp Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Messages:
    3,092
    Location:
    Vermont
    My guess is that they will make a 56kWh version and a larger version. Using the Model S and X cells would only provide about 56kWh, and they wouldn't fit either. In order to utilize the higher energy density of those cells Tesla is using a wider voltage range, as low as 2.75v. The Roadster can't charge a cell that's below 3.5v because it would exceed the limitations of the on-board charger.

    There's also a size limitation due to a slightly different shape of the S and X cells. They are both 18650 but the ends of the cells are a different shape and wouldn't fit without changes to the Roadster sheet frames.
     
    • Informative x 3
  7. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2007
    Messages:
    15,264
    Location:
    Central New York
    Don't think it will affect PR for the Model 3 or any other Tesla vehicles, different chemistry. I'd say most people would imagine cells have improved in the last 10 years. In any case Tesla should come up with a better solution.
     
  8. Rotarypower

    Rotarypower Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2016
    Messages:
    191
    Location:
    Cary, NC
    If they are truly going to put resources into a next gen battery pack, they NEED to also redesign and update the PEM. That is the weak link in the car design and proving to be a major issue with our cars. Yes, we have to have replacement battery packs, but it’s time to come up with a water cooled PEM with updated inverter tech similar to what is available in current production Tesla’s. Air cooled inverter is ancient tech and incredibly unreliable. I know this is wishful thinking on my part. How hard would it be to use the PEM blower as forced air for an air to coolant heat exchanger with an isolated loop running from the PEM down near the blower? Im guessing they will only do what is absolutely necessary to keep our cars running, but sure would be nice to improve the PEM.
     
    • Like x 2
    • Love x 1
  9. gregd

    gregd Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2014
    Messages:
    2,038
    Location:
    CM98
    Really good idea, but I'd be happy if they just fix the PEM fan connector and the insulation under the power IGBTs.
     
    • Like x 2
  10. bluecpt

    bluecpt Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2018
    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    From the world
    Are model 3 battery better than the S?
     
  11. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2007
    Messages:
    15,264
    Location:
    Central New York
    Time will tell.
     
  12. mel1800

    mel1800 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2013
    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    Washington DC
    I put down a $5k deposit a year ago, and roadster #618 has been at Tyco SC since Oct. awaiting PEM fan connectors. It doesn't seem like there's any progress being made. My main concern was bricking the battery as it sat unplugged for months. SC reps kept assuring me they wouldn't let that happen, but I was watching it via OVMS until battery reached 5% mid December, then they unplugged the OVMS. I didn't know about the $5k refund though.
     
  13. Roadster

    Roadster JdeMO Powered

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    913
    Location:
    SoCal
    @mel1800 any update? Seems like a tough position to be in with them holding your car hostage since October.
     
  14. wycolo

    wycolo Active Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2012
    Messages:
    2,825
    Location:
    WA & WY
    > The old Roadster batteries were also pretty good, although not that good. For instance, my (second) original battery lost maybe 12.5% of its initial CAC in over 80K miles. . . . That's partly why I've been so disappointed with the 3.0 cells: I got spoiled by the original ones. [bolosky]

    Indeed, I'd sure give my left (lug) nut for an old original-style 2.0 Roadster battery. TM was offering to rebuild Roadster packs with the original cells up through the summer of 2018 but this possibility has since dried up. Why did this happen and where were they getting these cells? Were they from Panasonic off the shelf (since the MS never used these same cells) and now Panasonic stopped making them?
    --
     
    • Informative x 1
  15. DeedWest

    DeedWest 2010 Roadster 2.0 - VIN 523

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2014
    Messages:
    544
    Location:
    North Dallas, TX
    Did they stop offering the Reman. 2.0 ESS? I just had one done in December '18, and to my knowledge they were still creating them. 6-8 week turnaround time here in Texas.
     
    • Informative x 2
  16. dhrivnak

    dhrivnak Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2011
    Messages:
    3,673
    Location:
    NE Tennessee
    Not sure if it is due to winter and not a lot of driving, but my range seems to have stabilized. Range_Graph.JPG
     
    • Informative x 1
  17. wycolo

    wycolo Active Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2012
    Messages:
    2,825
    Location:
    WA & WY
    > Did they stop offering the Reman. 2.0 ESS? [DeedWest]

    It would appear that you obtained the last Reman in captivity unless you can share knowledge to the contrary. TIA.
    --
     
    • Informative x 1
  18. BryanJ.Greene

    BryanJ.Greene Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2018
    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    New York
    The healthiest charge for a lithium ion battery seems to be about 50%. If you are going to store your phone for an extended period, charge it to 50% before turning it off and storing it. This is easier on the battery than charging it to 100% or letting it drain to 0% before storage.

    The battery, by the way, continues to degrade and discharge if the phone is turned off and not being used at all. This generation of batteries was designed to be used. If you think of it, turn the phone on every several months and top the battery up to 50%.

    Tips to extend battery life

    The tips above address battery lifespan directly. Battery lifespan is also affected by battery life, how long your phone lasts on a single charge. Improving battery life extends the lifespan of the battery by slowing down those charge cycles.
     
    • Disagree x 2
  19. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2007
    Messages:
    15,264
    Location:
    Central New York
    Um, what?
     
    • Like x 1
  20. ICON

    ICON Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2015
    Messages:
    135
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    The battery in our cars would never balance if it were only charged to 50% it only balances when it reaches to be 90% to my understanding...
     
    • Like x 2
    • Informative x 1

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC