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3.0 Battery Longevity

Discussion in 'Roadster 2008-2012' started by bolosky, Feb 14, 2017.

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  1. Sparrow

    Sparrow S105/ Roadster 189

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    Just completed my first range charge in a long time. A few minutes after charging completed it settled down to 323 miles ideal. It got as high as 331 while charging. Better than I expected for my almost 3 1/2 year old 3.0 pack, but it does only have 8400 miles on the new pack.
     
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  2. wycolo

    wycolo Active Member

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    > Is he trying to have the lowest mileage Roadster ever? [JRP3]

    Like seeing the Grand Canyon for the first time, or the Mona Lisa, 8 minutes is enough, certainly 20. Driving the perfect car you only really need enough joy to last another 3 months, so back in the garage it goes.
    --
     
  3. drewski

    drewski Supporting Member

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    i spent 2 weeks rafting down the Grand Canyon and it wasn't enough . . . there's more than anyone can experience in just 8 minutes

    i guess some people are more easily satiated than others . . .
     
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  4. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    Mine was one of the files sent in to @bolosky in October. Since then I have done one round trip to work in the car while the M3 was in for paint correction (a round trip drive of 2x40 miles) and my CAC has dropped again to 194.36. It seems every time I plug it in, let it balance and then take the car out for a short drive like that, I lose another CAC point.
     
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  5. bolosky

    bolosky Member

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    It's been about three months since the last update, and it looks like I'm going to get an interesting log that shows lots of use and very little degradation. So, I'm going to do another update. Anyone who wants to should send me logs in the next little while if you want them to be included in the next graph.
     
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  6. thebabydoc

    thebabydoc Member

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    Bill, where do i send to? I have sent before but get no responses from you.
    BTW, my CAC seems to have not budged from 193 in like 6 months. Was at
    Gruber for 3 months getting remanufactured PEM over the summer, though.
    Doing a range charge now to see where it's at.
     
  7. dhrivnak

    dhrivnak Active Member

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    #607 dhrivnak, Jan 18, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2020
    I just did a 3.0 Range trip, and while a range charge is down to 307 miles, that is still much better than when new. I drove 241 miles, and I still had 63 miles left. I tried a hard acceleration, for just a short while and it still pulled hard enough to bring a smile to one's face.

    Range_Trip (1).JPG Range_Trip (3).JPG Range_Trip (2).JPG
    Range_Graph.JPG
     
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  8. Gremlin

    Gremlin Member

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    Lithium battery prices have dropped from the high of 300 per gram to reportedly 120 per gram.
     
  9. Gremlin

    Gremlin Member

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    Used ESS from Gruber on eBay states 180 miles range.
     
  10. Gremlin

    Gremlin Member

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    Having read up on batteries extensively for the Model S 90D (second Tesla) in winter I charge it to 80-90. 90 (if in teens the later). In summer 70 percent to maintain health of the battery. So for by my calculation 70 percent from 340 is 238 miles. Agree on the 175-238 range. No reason to charge to 100 percent unless about to perform a road trip in 8 hours < or less.
     
  11. Gremlin

    Gremlin Member

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    #611 Gremlin, Jan 20, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
    But anyway the 3.0 pack degrades way to quick. One should expect newer type cells like Model S chemistry which in NL shows model S cars with 200.000 km with just 7% degradation and 3 years old. This should be the degradation curve for the 3.0.[/QUOTE]

    My models S is at 54K, has .05 percent degradation. I learned after having my first one. The only time I charge daily is when the ambient temperature is below 45 degrees. In the summer I charge to 70 percent top of the week, let car drop to 20 percent charge back unto 70 percent. I only charge to 90 when in the teens or about to do a road trip.
     
  12. Gremlin

    Gremlin Member

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    Truckers hate that by the way (drafting).
     
  13. Gremlin

    Gremlin Member

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    Being an IT geek the answer is pretty much straight forward to me. Install the current Model S / X / 3 LTE chipset to the car, add little program and memory to pull data from Tesla and use realtime calculations from the fleet cars. For clarity, weather, humidity, gps signal with new fleet algorithm . Or go cheap route, update Tesla app to include Roadster, update firmware based upon Model 3 long range use (probably users phone hooks into Roadster get data that way. My two cents.
     
  14. gregd

    gregd Active Member

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    Letting the battery drop to 20% before charging is operating in "ICE Mode". Conventional wisdom regarding Lithium-based batteries is to do exactly the opposite. Keep them charged to between 50% and 80%. Going higher is a stress, hence it's reserved for "Range mode" on the Roadster. Going lower than 20% is a stress as well, and overall the lower you are in SoC when you stomp on the accelerator the more stress you inflict. Low SoC is also a stress for the owner, because if the car isn't charged for whatever reason, when it hits zero the battery can easily get bricked.

    So, keep the battery in that sweet range, and have fun. That means leaving the car plugged in, Standard charging mode, whenever it's not being driven.
     
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  15. Gremlin

    Gremlin Member

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    Did you try Pete Gruber in AZ or Carl in Seattle?
    Are you using a Mac? New file structure is now used AFPS. Use Mac OS Journaled.
     
  16. Gremlin

    Gremlin Member

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    #616 Gremlin, Jan 20, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020

    Bill, I'm considering purchasing #1353. Sorry for the delayed response, I've read all the 3.0 longenvity and 3.0 posts for research. My concern is the Roadster ESS degradation. My Model S has 54K miles with only 5 percent degradation. Took the car to Chicago, Martha's Vineyard, Bengals and the Browns stadiums, and Charleston, SC. So yes, I supercharge it plenty but still baby that battery . Learned from my first Model S as what NOT to do.

    1353 is 2011 White 2.5 Roadster sport, that had the 3.0 ESS replacement on 5 Jul 17 (reference paperwork- no PII). It has 9k miles on it. The dealer informed me just this morning:

    Hello again, range mode supplies a 221 mile range. Just got the numbers back.
    Max charge would likely be 250-255.

    Think he has it backwards.... but I'm not a Roadster owner only a 90D :- P
    The dealer stated the owner said, "he just didn’t drive it enough, just purchased a new Bentley and that’s what he’s been driving. He said it just sat there and collected dust".
    I asked the dealer to please charge in range mode to get beyond the 225 barrier, my understanding of taking notes, but not to got over a 90 percent charge (bad for the battery) and to send me a photo. Cutting to the chase, I plan to fly out sometime in February (non Super Bowl week) look at the car, grab the logs, test drive make decision on the spot. I saw your post #489, getting the logs, seems pretty straight forward. The car is off warranty this July. Any recommendations in getting a 3.0 car gang?

    Parting shot... related to the delay in the new 3.5 ESS (not my coined name). Tesla is an automotive company, yet functions more as a DevOPS software company. Robots to assemble the cars, code and firmware in cars, OTA updates etc. The next push in my professional opinion: 1 FSD, 2. Model Y, 3. Roadster II and4 getting the new 1 million battery into the cars (end of 2020). My assumption is the Roadster II built upon the fleet data / lessons learned. When Tesla has the resources to update the firmware for the original roadster, which is a stand alone computer (not networked) outside of the Roadster II and Cybertruck (two Gigafactories - Shanghai just opened) and Panasonic battery strapped Tesla...we'll see the ESS 3.5. They were cash strapped until the last two quarters (profit) folks.
     

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  17. drewski

    drewski Supporting Member

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    Must be STD charge ideal miles . . . .o_O

    220 range charge would be awful. Its about what my 140 CAC remanned 2.0 ESS is getting (217).
     
  18. backmost

    backmost Member

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    Yeah I have a MacBook, so just reformat the USB using MacOS Journaled?
     
  19. bolosky

    bolosky Member

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    As someone else pointed out, 221 in range mode would be horrible. I'd expect a car with that age and mileage to have a CAC of 180-190, which would be much more like a standard charge of ~210. The Tesla guy probably just had no idea what he was doing and gave you the standard charge level. Range mode on a 3.0 Roadster winds up with about 100 miles more than standard mode. A 3.0 standard mode charge is about 80% SOC, and when in standard mode it hides the bottom 10% of the battery, so you get roughly 70% of the full capacity reported.

    The pack will degrade. They pretty much all do (the only one that hasn't just hasn't been driven at all so the CAC algorithm hasn't been running to update it). If you drive it a lot, it will degrade a little faster (like mine has), but mostly it's just a factor of time. The cells they chose just aren't that great in terms of longevity. If you get a 3.0, just expect it.

    That said, the rate of degradation does seem to be lower as the pack gets older. My pack lost about 15 Ah in the first 10K miles and about 25 in the next 45K (with about the same usage pattern).
     
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  20. Gremlin

    Gremlin Member

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    Here the data dealer sent over. Sorry in the delay. See enclosed pictures for the information you were asking about.
     

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