Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

3 day old import P85D crashed while using TACC

MsElectric

Active Member
Oct 11, 2014
1,604
18
New York
I'm really sorry to hear about this and the OP has received good advice in working with Tesla on an amicable resolution. A lawsuit will not get you anywhere, especially with cellphone photos taken while the car was being driven. The important thing is no one was hurt. Talk to Tesla and figure out the best way to proceed.

I do have a question or concern about TACC though. I fully understand that the driver is supposed to be in charge while TACC is doing its thing and I realize that it was not designed for traffic with red lights but the exact same traffic circumstances can occur on an interstate. Especially around rush hour, traffic speed can vary by a quite margin from 0 to 65 mph. shouldn't the radar always lock onto any obstacle in the path and slow down and stop before hitting an obstacle in the path of the radar?

The other part that concerns me is the advice given here to keep an eye on what the car is doing and intervene as needed with braking but there is a bit of a gray area here isn't there? When do you intervene and when do you know when to intervene? IMHO the braking before hitting something should be fool proof and work each and every time. Aren't you just playing a game of guessing when you should brake and when you should let the car brake? The problem with this approach is one day you might guess wrong.
 
Last edited:

spottyq

Member
May 7, 2015
278
49
Belgium
(snip)

The other part that concerns me is the advice given here to keep an eye on what the car is doing and intervene as needed with braking but there is a bit of a gray area here isn't there? When do you intervene and when do you know when to intervene? IMHO the braking before hitting something should be fool proof and work each and every time other time aren't you just playing a game of guessing when you should brake and when you should let the car brake? The problem with this approach is one day you might guess wrong.

If the car is setup (by setting a distance from 1 to 7 with the cruise control stalk) to brake a little bit earlier than you normally would if driving without TACC, then there is no second guessing needed — if it gets uncomfortably close, it means the car has failed to detect the need to brake and you have to step in.
 

MsElectric

Active Member
Oct 11, 2014
1,604
18
New York
If the car is setup (by setting a distance from 1 to 7 with the cruise control stalk) to brake a little bit earlier than you normally would if driving without TACC, then there is no second guessing needed — if it gets uncomfortably close, it means the car has failed to detect the need to brake and you have to step in.

Okay that makes sense. There is still a bit of a gray area though where you have to constantly monitor and wonder should you brake or not. I suppose you do this already when you drive and TACC is supposed to alleviate some of this. The problem I see is that TACC can and likely will lull many owners into a false sense of security.

- - - Updated - - -

There is so much pressure to be fist with innovations and not much time to test and test again.

Perhaps something similar to this happened in this situation. I still feet TACC should give absolute precedence to not hitting something with a radar signature.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

commasign

TeslaAdviceBlog.com
Aug 31, 2013
3,202
4,175
Davis, CA
It also probably doesn't help that you've posted pictures you've taken of the dash with your cell phone from the driver's seat while the car is in motion...

+1

Exactly.

Yea... 2 first pictures are taken "minutes before the accident".

+1

Surprised others didn't pick up on this too. Sounds a little fishy to me. Sort of like "hmmm, let me take a picture of this autopilot thing so I can crash this Tesla and share the pics on social media". You don't take a picture to document that autopilot is on unless you're trying to document that autopilot is on for something about to happen!
 

Kipernicus

Model S Res#P1440
Dec 2, 2009
1,255
135
Belmont, CA
Surprised others didn't pick up on this too. Sounds a little fishy to me. Sort of like "hmmm, let me take a picture of this autopilot thing so I can crash this Tesla and share the pics on social media". You don't take a picture to document that autopilot is on unless you're trying to document that autopilot is on for something about to happen!

Nah that's too skeptical a viewpoint. I'd take a picture of autopilot if I had it and it was my first time. When I first got the car I took pictures of all sorts of stuff, like the energy graph, the charging screen, the music screen, the trip meters, .....
 

commasign

TeslaAdviceBlog.com
Aug 31, 2013
3,202
4,175
Davis, CA
Nah that's too skeptical a viewpoint. I'd take a picture of autopilot if I had it and it was my first time. When I first got the car I took pictures of all sorts of stuff, like the energy graph, the charging screen, the music screen, the trip meters, .....

Hopefully not while the car is in motion. ;)

But seriously, the first time I had TACC on, my eyes were forward and my foot was hovering an inch over the brake pedal.
 

ReddyLeaf

Active Member
Mar 19, 2014
1,524
2,220
WA State
I'm surprised nobody mentioned the huge amount of damage to the Tesla, but essentially nothing but a small bump on the Ford Focus in the first picture. Then I see dirt on the ground in front of the Tesla, which might just have been a coincidence and was there before the accident. But then it looks like the same colored dirt on the Tesla bumper. I'm not familiar with the amount of damage to a Tesla in a "normal" accident vs. the amount of damage to the other vehicle, but it looks suspicious to me. Oh, and as for why Tesla called the importer right after the accident, I'm pretty sure the car must have notified Tesla immediately. I seem to recall reading about other accidents where Tesla called to see if the person was alright.
 

Lyon

2016 S P100DL, 2016 X P90D
Dec 26, 2011
2,004
215
Eugene, Oregon
Hey in a world where you can sue Mcd's and win for coffee being too hot, go for it. I don't think you have a case, you'd probably have to sue them in the US too which will be even more costly I'm sure.

Yes and as others have said don't lead with "I'm going to sue you"

You've been duped by the media. That was a reasonable use of the civil law suit and came out the right way. I've read the court decisions and researched the facts surrounding the events. I'd be happy to discuss specifics if you'd like but I'd rather not get too far off topic.
 

Gizmotoy

Active Member
Sep 16, 2013
3,657
859
Bay Area, CA
Perhaps something similar to this happened in this situation. I still feet TACC should give absolute precedence to not hitting something with a radar signature.
If you could guarantee the sensor is always right, sure. There are all kinds of circumstances that could trick the sensor: for example, consider a twisty road with parallel-parked cars. Worse, slamming on the brakes (even legitimately), puts the occupants at risk of being hit from the rear. You don't want to apply them unnecessarily either. It's not an easy situation.

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the huge amount of damage to the Tesla, but essentially nothing but a small bump on the Ford Focus in the first picture. Then I see dirt on the ground in front of the Tesla, which might just have been a coincidence and was there before the accident. But then it looks like the same colored dirt on the Tesla bumper. I'm not familiar with the amount of damage to a Tesla in a "normal" accident vs. the amount of damage to the other vehicle, but it looks suspicious to me. Oh, and as for why Tesla called the importer right after the accident, I'm pretty sure the car must have notified Tesla immediately. I seem to recall reading about other accidents where Tesla called to see if the person was alright.
In a rear end collision between modern vehicles, the car in back is always going to look utterly destroyed. That's normal-looking damage. They're made to crush and crumple to protect the occupants. Further, the hood is particularly prone to folding up because it is designed to destroy itself in an attempt to save any pedestrians you might hit.
 

ReddyLeaf

Active Member
Mar 19, 2014
1,524
2,220
WA State
In a rear end collision between modern vehicles, the car in back is always going to look utterly destroyed. That's normal-looking damage. They're made to crush and crumple to protect the occupants. Further, the hood is particularly prone to folding up because it is designed to destroy itself in an attempt to save any pedestrians you might hit.
Thanks for the explanation. It still seems like a lot of damage, but I'm not an accident investigator or an engineer with knowledge of these things. Edit: Still looks funny. Why the white scratches/marks on the front end of the hood. Looks like it impacted something higher than the Focus. I'm would guess a truck, but again, I'm no expert.
 

Gizmotoy

Active Member
Sep 16, 2013
3,657
859
Bay Area, CA
Thanks for the explanation. It still seems like a lot of damage, but I'm not an accident investigator or an engineer with knowledge of these things.
Well, it looks like he was still going pretty fast when he hit. That's not 5-10MPH-level damage. The dirt you mentioned is from the car in front. It has mud all over the tires, and probably had some sitting on the bottom ledge of the bumper cover that the Tesla knocked loose.
 

Lerxt

Active Member
Feb 21, 2014
1,000
110
Hong Kong/Australia
It constantly amazes the the numbers of people who import a car to an unsupported country particularly when it requires specialist knowledge, parts and equipment to fix. Not to mention how they manage to crash them regularly. The performance of the vehicle is not forgiving to unsafe drivers or show offs...

I really think they should go to Tesla with their tail between their legs and beg them to help rather than threatening to sue them.
 

brianman

Burrito Founder
Nov 10, 2011
17,519
2,984
From the second picture, cruise control appears to be set at 100 km/h while the car thinks the most recent posted speed limit was 50 km/h. Not something I would want to post publicly -- setting CC at double the speed limit.
 

Spidy

Active Member
Feb 7, 2015
1,364
1,035
EU
You dont have a prayer if you file a lawsuit.. I have owned 3 cars (mercedes , Audi) and NONE of them including my Tesla work/worked 100% perfect with ACC.
You have to pay attention when driving, none of these systems were meant to just ignore what the car is doing.
Based on your impact Id say you were moving very fast, didnt you think to apply the brakes as that car got closer? When I use ACC in traffic my foot hovers over the brake pedal...

Neither of them calls their system Autopilot either...
 

brianman

Burrito Founder
Nov 10, 2011
17,519
2,984
Neither of them calls their system Autopilot either...
While TACC, automatic emergency braking, blind spot warning are arguably "part of the Autopilot suite" what most people would call Autopilot hasn't shipped yet.
Model S | Tesla Motors

All 4 of these key features haven't shipped:
  • Autopilot
  • Lane Changing
  • Safety
  • Autopilot Parking
 

Spidy

Active Member
Feb 7, 2015
1,364
1,035
EU
While TACC, automatic emergency braking, blind spot warning are arguably "part of the Autopilot suite" what most people would call Autopilot hasn't shipped yet.
Model S | Tesla Motors

I know, but with all the accouncements and OTA Updates etc. it might not be the beast idea to include such features in such a suite or even name it like that. If you call it driver assistance systems then there is a much clearer general emphasis that you should still pay attention.


Autopilot is likely a bit more advanced than our CR-V's system and has road-arc handling-code in it, but ACC and auto-steering is no substitute for staying engaged with the car as it drives no matter whether we're driving a Honda or a Tesla.
Lawyer/Judge: "Then when is it called Autopilot?"
 

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top