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3 day old import P85D crashed while using TACC

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If anything this shows that Tesla is appealing to a broader demographic. A demographic that has less experience with common car technology and hasnt bothered to RTFM. Sayeth Elon and team in the manual:

"Warning: Traffic-aware cruise control may not brake/decelerate for stationary vehicles, especially in situations when you are driving over 50 mph (80 km/h) and a vehicle you are following moves out of your driving path and a stationary vehicle or object is in front of you instead.
Always pay attention to the road ahead and stay prepared to take immediate corrective action. Depending on TrafficAware Cruise Control to avoid a collision can result in serious injury or death."
 
It constantly amazes the the numbers of people who import a car to an unsupported country particularly when it requires specialist knowledge, parts and equipment to fix. Not to mention how they manage to crash them regularly. The performance of the vehicle is not forgiving to unsafe drivers or show offs...

I really think they should go to Tesla with their tail between their legs and beg them to help rather than threatening to sue them.
I just wish all that judging and acquisition will stop, wonder if those judging ever visited "unsupported country".
 
While you're always meant to remain alert, and I think a lawsuit against Tesla would be futile, I think it could be worthwhile reaching out to Tesla to explain what happened. I know that Tesla is looking to hire in Turkey, so you might have an opportunity soon to have Tesla pull logs and figure out if something either went wrong, or was wrong with the car.
 
Probably not very well considering he is taking pictures of the dash while his car is flying down the road....

While I wouldn't agree that the accident was "obviously fault of TACC", I also wouldn't call 53mph and 42mph "flying down the road" exactly.

Apparently for 100 km the TACC had functioned on a road with slow-and-go traffic; note in 2nd pic it is accelerating strongly through 42mph, so must have been quite slow before.
 
If anything this shows that Tesla is appealing to a broader demographic. A demographic that has less experience with common car technology and hasnt bothered to RTFM. Sayeth Elon and team in the manual:

"Warning: Traffic-aware cruise control may not brake/decelerate for stationary vehicles, especially in situations when you are driving over 50 mph (80 km/h) and a vehicle you are following moves out of your driving path and a stationary vehicle or object is in front of you instead.
Always pay attention to the road ahead and stay prepared to take immediate corrective action. Depending on TrafficAware Cruise Control to avoid a collision can result in serious injury or death."


Wow I think this might be the exact case. The driver told me the cruise was set to a 100km/h and a car moved out of his way car started accelarating but didn't stop for the car waiting at lights. I'm not sure I'll ask the owner of the car again when he wakes up as it is 5am here but a dashcam vid shared earlier in the thread also sounds like this.

Some people here are bashing us so bad I just don't get it. Yes the "lawsuit mode" was wrong but it was the heat of the moment and as you've made it very clear it doesn't make sesne to file one. I do think there's a grey area with you being in responsible still with Autopilot but when do you take matters into your hands? I mean the driver told me he reacted but it was too late because the car was accelarating to the set speed of 100kph.

As to being wrong because you imported to a non Tesla country? Wow. I called Tesla NL before and they've said warranty is still valid with importation and they didn't advise against it. As I've said demand for Tesla in Turkey is great because of tax, petrol advantages but that's a different story. If anything Tesla should embrace these early adapters as they're more of a fan than a customer.

I hope the car gets fixed or the owner gets the money from the insurance bc there's a chance this car is totalled. But Tesla should fix "rear ending stationary car" problem or make it very very clear. This could've happened to anyone and this is such a sad event. We've had so many sleepless nights chatting with the owner we were so excited and took delivery together just 3 days ago...

p.s. Driver said he took dash pics to show me and put up on my blog to show TACC and energy consumption. Pics were taken an hour prior to the incident he says and he drove succesfully for an hour before with TACC enabled.
 
I just wish all that judging and acquisition will stop, wonder if those judging ever visited "unsupported country".

No need to wonder, I've spent the last 25 years of my work life travelling to countries that will never be supported by Tesla. Buying this car in those places is nonsensical, no one in the country can help you fix the car.
 
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If it were me, I would see how the insurance and Tesla responds first. Going straight ahead to lawyer mode does not make a lot of sense until you know all your options and have all the facts established.

As for the stationary car thing, it seems like the same TACC weakness that affects a lot of TACC cars (in that the system doesn't detect the car because it is not moving).
 
I am so glad to hear that everyone is safe after the crash! Obviously it is so very sad to have an accident in a brand new car, let alone an anxiously awaited TESLA. I think that the initial thread title started the thread off in a bad manor. I am saddened that you havent felt much support from the group. Of course I am also sad that your friend didn't receive good training on the TACC. I hope that your friend can work with TESLA and his insurance and be back in a wonderfully safe Model S as soon as possible!
 
Sorry to hear of this.

However, the video that was posted up-thread of the car not coming to a stop, and likely this accident, are not due to bugs or improper testing. They are simply limitations of the current state of the technology (short of having tens of thousands of dollars of hardware for driver assistance onboard). Unfortunately, too many drivers believe the technology used in production vehicles is further along than it really is.

In the video posted above and likely the OP's situation, the car performed exactly how the system is expected to work. This is *not* a failure in TACC. It's a failure in the driver's understanding of the capabilities of the system.

1) The car had acquired a radar target and was tracking the vehicle in front of it. When the car has a lock on a radar target, it prefers to keep a lock on that vehicle, under the assumption that you are following it. (After all, it's intended for highway use, in which you typically follow the car in front of you).
2) The car cannot assume that what is directly in front of the car will be the path of the vehicle. (Two examples illustrating why are below).

When the car being tracked in the video above veered to the right, the car expected the driver to follow it. (After all, the system is designed for highway travel, in which you follow the car in front of you). If stationary objects directly in front of the car's current path of travel were to cause braking, it would be horrible. That would mean that every time the road has a curve, and there's a stationary object on the side of the road on the outside of the curve (a sign, pole, tree, etc.) the car would initiate a braking maneuver.

As a result of (2), the car *must* inherently ignore stationary objects in that situation to avoid undesired braking maneuvers.

Another example: Suppose you're on a divided highway traveling 65 mph and there's a shallow curve to the left (consider 2 lanes in your direction of travel, and you're in the right lane). On the shoulder of the highway (outside of the curve and midway through it) is a disabled vehicle. As you enter the curve, your car may be pointing toward that stopped vehicle on the shoulder and, from the car's perspective, heading right for it. But you do *NOT* want the vehicle to start braking here, thinking that the car is a collision target, because then you'll get inadvertent braking, and a car following you (which is sadly most likely tailgating) will likely slam into you. In reality, you'll be passing next to that vehicle. This is why stationary objects like this are filtered out as radar targets--so we don't experience a whole bunch of inadvertent braking, which would undoubtedly cause more accidents.

Driver assistance technologies such as TACC almost require some sort of special training--not because they are particularly difficult to use or understand, but because their capabilities and behaviors are often greatly misunderstood by the drivers that use them.

To the OP's post, I'm very sorry that this happened--but most likely the system was functioning 100% correctly (and Tesla likely has record of this, as the car probably uploads its black box log whenever it experiences a significant accident). This is just an unfortunate case of a driver either misunderstanding the system, or not using it correctly (driver was inexperienced with the system). It's a shame that it happened, but be thankful nobody was hurt. Take some time to sort through it, and get back in a Tesla as soon as you can.

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As for the stationary car thing, it seems like the same TACC weakness that affects a lot of TACC cars (in that the system doesn't detect the car because it is not moving).

Yes. This is not a Tesla/TACC weakness. It's just a limitation based on the hardware available on the car or *ANY* production car. Stopping for those stationary objects would cause the car to brake hard on highways all over the place for no reason, as I explained just above.
 
Adaptive cruise systems cannot responsibly operate a vehicle. The driver must be prepared at all times to take control. There are no commands to issue or buttons to push. Just slow down. Press the brakes.

Not hitting the car in front of you with TACC takes exactly the same thing that not hitting the car in front of you without TACC takes: A driver.
 
Adaptive cruise systems cannot responsibly operate a vehicle. The driver must be prepared at all times to take control. There are no commands to issue or buttons to push. Just slow down. Press the brakes.

Not hitting the car in front of you with TACC takes exactly the same thing that not hitting the car in front of you without TACC takes: A driver.

I spent a good twenty minutes typing out a detailed response to your post and the backspace key changed the page and all three paragraphs were gone :cursing:.

My main point was that autopilot-features need to become incompetence-resistant (that phrase is not directed at OP). Many future drivers will use autopilot features in far less than favorable conditions with less than desirable driving habits. Just because Tesla can't be sued can't mean they can't be harmed. The last thing they, or other auto manufacturers, need is the consumer or regulatory perception that these technologies are unreliable or inherently unsafe because of a TACC or Auto steering-blamed crash.
 
Yes. This is not a Tesla/TACC weakness. It's just a limitation based on the hardware available on the car or *ANY* production car. Stopping for those stationary objects would cause the car to brake hard on highways all over the place for no reason, as I explained just above.
I agree this is a limitation with the current technology. And it will continue to remain a limitation until the car takes over steering. Once the car knows what direction it will take, it will be much better at differentiating between relevant and irrelevant stationary objects.
 
it's funny how op mentioned about how the car accelerated by itself, mine had the same issue on several, but rare, occasions. pretty scary stuff. when mentioned, the expression on my sa's face seemed like he's heard about this complaint before.
 
The parking sensors don't detect low curbs. And the blind spot sensors have their limitations. And drugs have side effects. And lawn mowers can chop off fingers. All technology has its limits and safety issues. Just have intellectual curiosity about what those limits are and use the technology within those limits. Or choose not to use the technology at all, or wait until it changes to become safer.

Good analysis above. Tesla should perhaps give that exact education on tacc in their delivery or in a video. And not count on people reading the manual.