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3 day old import P85D crashed while using TACC

Andyw2100

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2014
6,542
2,443
Ithaca, NY
I'll have to ask what was asked earlier but not answered yet. Where exactly was the front license plate mounted? Was it covering the front camera/sensor? This is the type of error a non Tesla certified dealer could have made (not understanding where the sensors were located).

Perhaps the question hasn't been answered because it's not relevant: the car operated exactly as it was designed to operate. If the radar had been obstructed, the car would have indicated that, and would not have activated TACC. This was an example of driver error. It's no more complicated than that.
 

Electroman

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2012
6,520
7,853
TX
Still can't fathom difference between the extent of damage to the front of the Tesla compared to almost dent free back of the car in the front.

Model S with almost 1000+ pounds more than the compact car in the front and with the impact at around 30+ mph, the difference in damage is a bit strange.
 

kptesl

Member
Feb 22, 2014
50
11
US
Still can't fathom difference between the extent of damage to the front of the Tesla compared to almost dent free back of the car in the front.

Model S with almost 1000+ pounds more than the compact car in the front and with the impact at around 30+ mph, the difference in damage is a bit strange.

That is good design in the model s. All of that deformation absorbed impact energy, which protected the driver and passengers. As you notice the damage is only in the "crumple zone" in front of the cabin. The cabin where the driver and passengers sit is undisturbed.

Also, if you notice how the hood folds in half and moves up over the windshield- this is designed to happen so that it covers the windshield to protect from debris flying through the windshield and hitting somebody.
 
Last edited:

steve841

Active Member
Jan 17, 2010
1,948
680
Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Sorry for the nightmare as well ... but to rely on a computer to do the driving is begging for an accident. Above evidence is perfect.

While Google and others push for automated cars ... I wonder what happens when there is debris in road, an animal, or something that may require awareness and response...
 

Stoneymonster

Active Member
Jan 8, 2013
1,787
1,085
Aptos, Ca
Sorry for the nightmare as well ... but to rely on a computer to do the driving is begging for an accident. Above evidence is perfect.

While Google and others push for automated cars ... I wonder what happens when there is debris in road, an animal, or something that may require awareness and response...

When fully automated driving arrives, those sorts of things will be handled. These are not unsolved problems, they are unsolved problems at a price point that makes a product.
 
I am completely confused what is this option for, for how long is on the market, and what it should do?
Autopilot.jpg
 
Still can't fathom difference between the extent of damage to the front of the Tesla compared to almost dent free back of the car in the front.

Model S with almost 1000+ pounds more than the compact car in the front and with the impact at around 30+ mph, the difference in damage is a bit strange.

I have the same thoughts. It does not make sense when looking @ those pictures. I would think the vehicle in front would have been squashed but it looks like the TESLA is just parked behind it.
 

ecarfan

Well-Known Member
Moderator
Sep 21, 2013
19,504
14,525
West Vancouver, British Columbia
I am completely confused what is this option for, for how long is on the market, and what it should do?
View attachment 80639
The Autopilot software is not yet released, only the TACC feature which is being discussed in this thread. Autopilot is expected to be released this year. The necessary hardware is present in all cars built since late September 2013.

What it will do, in summary, is described in the screen capture shown in your post. Over time in future releases Autopilot will become more capable and sophisticated. The Model S is continuously being improved, it is not static like other cars. People are not used to this and it can be confusing to some.
 

Electroman

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2012
6,520
7,853
TX
That is good design in the model s. All of that deformation absorbed impact energy, which protected the driver and passengers. As you notice the damage is only in the "crumple zone" in front of the cabin. The cabin where the driver and passengers sit is undisturbed.

Also, if you notice how the hood folds in half and moves up over the windshield- this is designed to happen so that it covers the windshield to protect from debris flying through the windshield and hitting somebody.

I fully understand how and why Model S crumples and protects the occupants. But so should the Ford. At the very least I would have expected the rear bumper to have dislocated.

And not even whiplash injuries to the Ford occupants ?
 
I fully understand how and why Model S crumples and protects the occupants. But so should the Ford. At the very least I would have expected the rear bumper to have dislocated.

And not even whiplash injuries to the Ford occupants ?
I think is very easy to notice that difference in bumper height is responsible for damage difference to both cars Tesla bumper is much lower so lot of damage and not much damage to Focus. Nothing special about Tesla "special" design, protection of occupants here.
 

emir-t

Member
Oct 28, 2013
452
554
Istanbul
Ok here's an update on what's been happening.

First off, as I've said before, yes the "lawsuit mode" was a wrong initial attitude and it doesn't make sense. The driver now acknowledges that it was a driver error, he was not thoroughly informed essentially and that's just one of many disadvantages of importing a Tesla to a non supported country. (Yet) Apparently the fine-print clearly states TACC might not detect stationary vehicles all the time. Reasons for that were made very clear in the thread. If people who took delivery of a Tesla recently in supported countries could let us know whether or not they were extensively informed about this I'd be very happy. I'm sincerely curious on whether the delivery specialists say; "Oh and if you're on stop&go hwy traffic and a car in front of you switches lanes and the traffic is at a halt in the front, it won't detect that car."


All things aside, I would've anticipated a bit of a support for this very tragic event from the TMC community but instead everyone just bashed us as if we were Jeremy Clarkson or something. Everyone reacted as if b/c TACC was active, the driver went to the backseat to play with his son. He applied brakes but there just wasn't enough time, hence the discussion of "grey area for when to react" discussion made by sensible people. Some people here accused us of being wrong in the first place to import a Tesla into Turkey, some conspiracy theorists accused us of being short-sellers of the stock, some accused the owner/driver of being irresponsible, rich and spoiled etc. Truth is we are Tesla fans and enthusiasts who love Tesla's vision and products so much so that my friend went the distance of taking the risk and importing, despite buying an ICE car is easier, more convenient and probably cheaper anyway. He could afford it, I would too if I could afford it. We are not trying to harm the Tesla community or Tesla for that matter, if anything we benefit them in every way with our everyday actions. (sometimes Tesla is all I talk about and people are almost all the time very surprised and interested) It was very depressing for the owner and me to read all those very negative comments especially after crashing your brand new Tesla. For those of you who just said it wouldn't make sense to go after a lawsuit and explained why TACC was functioning the way it should, thank you, as I've said in the first part of this update.


Tomorrow the insurance appraiser will take a look at the car and we'll know the insurance situation even tough I don't know how things will go. The insurance appraiser will see a Tesla for the first time most probably, not knowing repair costs or anything. We also called Tesla service and they said that the nearest service center is in Vienna and that we should ship the car there. I have no idea how to keep insurance company and Tesla in Vienna in contact, how they would work etc. Would insurance cover the shipment cost? Would they accept to pay all repair costs declared by Tesla service centre in Vienna? Would there be any legal import/export documents required as the car will undergo customs again? So many questions nobody seems to know...


If anyone thinks they have an idea how things may unfold I'd appreciate any advice. Thanks.

p.s. Could the mods add this update to the very end of the original post for new comers or is that against the rules?
 

Johan

Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
Feb 9, 2012
7,510
10,031
Drammen, Norway
Thanks for the update Emir!

All your questions concerning how the insurer will handle this, who will pay for shipping, repairs etc. is impossible for anyone here to answer. It all comes down to the terms of the insurance policy that the owner has bought. You will have to read the fine print of the contract. After all the insurance company did insure the car, knowing Tesla has no presence in Turkey. So I'm guessing the premium was high since that would make it both an expensive and uncommon car, as well as powerful?
 

Andyw2100

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2014
6,542
2,443
Ithaca, NY
All things aside, I would've anticipated a bit of a support for this very tragic event from the TMC community but instead everyone just bashed us as if we were Jeremy Clarkson or something. Everyone reacted as if b/c TACC was active, the driver went to the backseat to play with his son.

When you make statements like this that just clearly are not true, you lose credibility.

I'm not going to go back and count, but there were a great number of posts that started out by saying that they were glad no one was hurt, how that was the most important thing, etc. That is certainly support. And by no means did everyone bash you. Sure, many people pointed out what your friend did wrong, but others did not, and most of those who did were pretty polite and even supportive in how they did it.

Your generalization is a misrepresentation of the posts in this thread.
 

emir-t

Member
Oct 28, 2013
452
554
Istanbul
When you make statements like this that just clearly are not true, you lose credibility.

I'm not going to go back and count, but there were a great number of posts that started out by saying that they were glad no one was hurt, how that was the most important thing, etc. That is certainly support. And by no means did everyone bash you. Sure, many people pointed out what your friend did wrong, but others did not, and most of those who did were pretty polite and even supportive in how they did it.

Your generalization is a misrepresentation of the posts in this thread.


You are right on that and thanks everyone for their supportive attitude in that regards. After all they probably impacted with the car in front of them fairly fast (around 50-60kph) and things could've gone much worse if they weren't in a Tesla. I too am glad they are all O.K.

But then again reading you are a stock manipulator when in maybe one of your darkest moments doesn't feel very good. (that's just one example) I'm not saying "everyone" was bashing and all generalisations are wrong. I just wanted to share how I felt.
 

spottyq

Member
May 7, 2015
278
50
Belgium
When you make statements like this that just clearly are not true, you lose credibility.

I'm not going to go back and count, but there were a great number of posts that started out by saying that they were glad no one was hurt, how that was the most important thing, etc. That is certainly support. And by no means did everyone bash you. Sure, many people pointed out what your friend did wrong, but others did not, and most of those who did were pretty polite and even supportive in how they did it.

Your generalization is a misrepresentation of the posts in this thread.

Humm… I must say I find emir-t's reaction quite good. I am not sure I would have been able to not get angry if I were in his place. :)

That particular quote you picked is quite negative, but he (and the driver) has acknowledged that it was a driver error and that they should have been more informed about the TACC.

There is an other quote of emir-t in that same post, where is talks about "sensible people" when talking about the discussion before.

emir-t said:
(snip) hence the discussion of "grey area for when to react" discussion made by sensible people. (snip)

Thanks or the follow-up emir-t ! I'll be curious to know how this sad matter is handled by the insurance company (and Tesla.)
 

ecarfan

Well-Known Member
Moderator
Sep 21, 2013
19,504
14,525
West Vancouver, British Columbia
First off, as I've said before, yes the "lawsuit mode" was a wrong initial attitude and it doesn't make sense. The driver now acknowledges that it was a driver error, he was not thoroughly informed essentially and that's just one of many disadvantages of importing a Tesla to a non supported country. Everyone reacted as if b/c TACC was active, the driver went to the backseat to play with his son. He applied brakes but there just wasn't enough time, hence the discussion of "grey area for when to react" discussion made by sensible people...
Truth is we are Tesla fans and enthusiasts who love Tesla's vision and products so much so that my friend went the distance of taking the risk and importing, despite buying an ICE car is easier, more convenient and probably cheaper anyway. He could afford it, I would too if I could afford it...
It was very depressing for the owner and me to read all those very negative comments especially after crashing your brand new Tesla.
I am glad that you have recognized your error, so thank you for that. I remain confused about who owns the car and who was driving. See your quote shown below from your post that started this thread. That reads as if you were driving. Is that correct? But you are not the owner of the car? Except you said that "we" decided to import the car.
We live in Turkey and we've decided to import a Model S to the country. There's this automotive dealership that imports Tesla's for people and when we've heard they were importing a P85D for themselves about 3 months ago, we decided to buy it from them. After lots of nights passed by sleep deprived because of excitement, finally the dealer took delivery of the P85D in NL, shipped it to Turkey, it cleared customs and we took delivery finally 3 days ago. It was one of the happiest days of my life. I managed to find an insurance company to insure the vehicle thankfully and all was clear...
Today was going to be my first road trip. For those who wonder it was going to be from Mudanya/Bursa to Sarkoy/Tekirdag. I hit the road with 91% charge on the P85D's battery with me, my 2 year old son and my pregnant wife. Eager to try adaptive cruise control for the first time, I enabled it...
This is a terrible thing and obviously not my mistake. The dealer who sold me the vehicle told me that Tesla called him immediately after the incident. Although 3G network of Tesla doesn't work in Turkey the car was connected to the internet by my phone's 3G hotspot. What should I to next? Thank god my wife and kids are alright but should I plan on suing Tesla? because this was Autopilot's mistake. The car came with 6.1 installed, I updated to 6.2 yesterday. I feel so lost I don't even know which court to sue since Tesla doesn't operate in Turkey just yet although the warranty is valid worldwide.
 

emir-t

Member
Oct 28, 2013
452
554
Istanbul
I am glad that you have recognized your error, so thank you for that. I remain confused about who owns the car and who was driving. See your quote shown below from your post that started this thread. That reads as if you were driving. Is that correct? But you are not the owner of the car? Except you said that "we" decided to import the car.

Yes I can see how that would get confusing.

- I have a Tesla fan site/blog/news site in Turkish.
- I meet this friend who is considering to buy a Tesla months ago, through the website. He asks me so many questions, we research together, we make friends and he decides to buy one.
- We constantly stay in contact through the order, shipment, importation process.
- Take delivery together.
- Hear from him 3 days later about the crash, an hour or so after the crash.

I was writing what he said in his name hence used "I" in the OP. Sorry for the confusion. He still reads the thread and I still pretty much write what he says in his name too hence I use "we".

I hope everything is clearer. I'll update the thread as things unfold.
 

kptesl

Member
Feb 22, 2014
50
11
US
I fully understand how and why Model S crumples and protects the occupants. But so should the Ford. At the very least I would have expected the rear bumper to have dislocated.

And not even whiplash injuries to the Ford occupants ?

Sorry I misinterpreted your previous post- shouldn't have assumed you wouldn't know this.

I suppose the front crumple zones are designed to crumple more than the rear ones since you usually drive forwards. If somebody rear ends you their crumple zone can be used to lessen the impact. But yes I agree, at least some bumper damage could be expected on the focus.

I found this old picture from a rear-end the other way around:
 

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