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3 month old Model S with all glass roof. A huge crack developed already

Discussion in 'Model S' started by bakchod87, May 24, 2017.

  1. bakchod87

    bakchod87 Member

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    So I took delivery mid February of a gorgeous all glass roof Model S. At the time of delivery there was a minor half an inch long crack in the all glass roof. I was told it is not a big deal and I believed the delivery team and took delivery. About 90 days later, I saw that the crack developed and became much much bigger. There is NO damage from the outside to the glass roof. The small half an inch ling crack morphed into this big crack. I called Tesla and they readily agreed to replace it with a new roof. I am glad Tesla service was super responsive and took immediate care of me. But, I am worried that this is a major surgery on the vehicle and what if they don't get the seals and bonds right. What if there is wind noise after the roof is replaced. With the all glass roof being so new, I doubt the technical team has done very many of these replacements. They do a lot of windshield replacements but that is nothing like replacing an all glass roof on the vehicle :(

    Any ideas or suggesting or recommendations? IMG_4365.JPG
     
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  2. idleuser

    idleuser Member

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    Was the incident documented upon delivery? If so, I would go back to Tesla and have them replace it. There is nothing "fine" about a cracked window.
     
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  3. bakchod87

    bakchod87 Member

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    Yes it was. It will be replaced under warranty but my concern if they will be able to get it right while installing a new glass roof outside of the factory.
     
  4. D.E.

    D.E. Member

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    I saw a new glass roof car one at a nearby showroom/repair facilities. The glass roof was slightly higher on the left front corner. They planned to replace the glass roof. Apparently it's no big deal for them to replace a glass roof.
     
  5. DÆrik

    DÆrik Member

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    I would imagine they use the glass lift that they have for the Model X windshield. Being that it is basically a large windshield, I would feel more comfortable having a glass roof replaced than a sunroof. More moving parts, etc.

    Let us know how they do with the replacement.

    Thanks Erik
     
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  6. mmd

    mmd Active Member

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    Interesting issue. Curious, if Tesla has done crash testing or rollover testing with the glass roof models.
    Are the glass roofs as strong as steel roofs ? If it cracks like this without any crash or major impact, then it makes me wonder.

    Tesla made a lot of noise in 2013 when they said, they broke a roof testing machine. Hopefully, it is same or better for the glass roof.
    UPDATE: Tesla roof so strong it broke crush-test machine
     
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  7. vgrinshpun

    vgrinshpun Supporting Member

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    Body frame is responsible for the strength and roof crash test results. Aluminum (not steel!) skin vs glass skin is immaterial.
     
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  8. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    I agree with DÆrik that it would be more difficult if it was a moving part but your glass roof is static so it is just like another windshield replacement so the seals and bond are very much routine and very reliable.
     
  9. Jeff4155

    Jeff4155 Member

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    I personally would not take the car in the first place if it had half an inch crack when new, but I think replacing the roof is the same amount of effort as replacing a cracked window, nothing mechanical about the all glass roof
     
  10. Drewflux

    Drewflux Member

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    @bakchod87 it looks like a stress crack. Commonly caused by body flex or temperature fluctuations after install. It's my guess the roof lining needs to come down and the glass is bolted from the inside to the roof panel.
     
  11. Duke-U

    Duke-U Member

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    It is glued like the windscreen. Height variation is due to a too thick layer of the glue/kit. By now they will have experience on glue thickness when applying and the glass lift will lower it in the correct position and they let it cure for a day.

    If they put pressure on one side to line up height you introduce flex in the glass which will make it crack with body flex.
     
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  12. MS16

    MS16 Member

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    Telsa said the Model S roof was so strong it broke the testing machine. Unfortunately, that was a wrong conclusion.

    What actually happened was the machine broke during testing, but not because "the roof was so strong" it just happened to break. Since the machine broke after passing the government minimums, it wasn't tested again. That is until IIHS tested it.

    IIHS tested the roof strength and the Model S didn't perform that well. The P100D is only rated 'acceptable', the other models just barely skirt the acceptable/good line. The Prius outperforms all Model S roof strength tests.

    Compare the roof strength test results for the Model S and The Prius.

    2017 Tesla Model S

    2017 Toyota Prius Prime
     
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  13. drklain

    drklain Member

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    MS16 -- Actually you are drawing false conclusions.

    1. The test was changed for more recent cars.
    2. With respect to the test machine failing, it failed during the test. It is reasonable to assume that the testing machine failed because it hit it's max ability to put weight/pressure on the roof and the roof had still not failed, then the test machine failed.
    3. The test results you show for Tesla and Prius demonstrate that the Tesla is STRONGER than the Prius. The number you are keying in on is the strength to weight ratio and the Prius only weighs 3,000 lbs compared to the Tesla at 4,500 lbs. If you observe, the Prius failed at 17,481 lbs of weight on the roof, the Tesla failed at 19,271...almost 1 ton more weight on it!

    It's a matter of what metric you look at...but to say the Prius has a stronger/safer roof than a Tesla based on that test data is selective selection of data not supported by the raw data.
     
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  14. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    You beat me to it. The roof on the S is stronger than the Prius, it's just that the car weighs a lot more, so the rating is lower.
     
  15. Az_Rael

    Az_Rael Supporting Member

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    They must measure that as a ratio for a reason, though. I would imagine it's based on how many lbs of force would be applied to a roof in a rollover event/ crash loads, and the mass of the car certainly affects that. So a Tesla would see more crash loads on the roof than a Prius because a Tesla is heavier. So unless we are talking about pieces of overpasses coming down on car roofs or other cars landing on top of roofs or something (which I would imagine is more rare than a rollover) then the ratio metric is a valid one.
     
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  16. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    Well, it's definitely considering rollover with the ratio. But then the probability of roll over of the two cars is not the same either (given different center of gravity).
     
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  17. azred

    azred Member

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    You took delivery with a half inch long crack in the roof? That's sound hard to believe. In fact, that sounds impossible to believe.
     
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  18. oktane

    oktane Active Member

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    Looks like they rolled your car during a test ride prior to delivery, then buffed out the scratches. Don't worry about the crack, your Tesla is still the most amazing vehicle on the planet.
     
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  19. MS16

    MS16 Member

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    #19 MS16, May 25, 2017
    Last edited: May 25, 2017
    Per IIHS:

    "A good rating requires a strength-to-weight ratio of at least 4. In other words, the roof must withstand a force of at least 4 times the vehicle's weight before the plate crushes the roof by 5 inches. For an acceptable rating, the minimum required strength-to-weight ratio is 3.25. For a marginal rating, it is 2.5. Anything lower than that is poor"

    A Prius achieves a 5.76 and the Model S 60 achieves a 4.33. The P100 achieves less than 4.0 The P100 does not make the top score.

    If you prefer to compare the Model S to a car closer to it's weight, then see the Volvo S90. The Volvo scores 5.28 and max of 21,877#. The Volvo weighs less yet performs significantly better than the Model S, withstanding 2606# more ultimate weight than the Tesla. I wonder why the Volvo didn't break the testing machine?

    2017 Volvo S90

    No matter how you look at the data, the Model S does not have an industry leading roof strength and any claims about how it's so strong that it broke a testing machine is pure hype.
     
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  20. MS16

    MS16 Member

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    #20 MS16, May 25, 2017
    Last edited: May 25, 2017
    '
    It's the same test. Please refer to Musks quote at the time.

    Musk "When we did the roof crush test, it got to four times the weight of the car, and then the machine broke," Musk told CBS. "So, literally the thing that is supposed to crush the car broke instead of the car."

    Tesla's boasts about its safety test doubted

    Elon was boasting about a ratio of 4. The Prius and Volvo are above 5.

    A machine that breaks during a test is very different than a machine broken by the car tested.

    When presented with the data, whose conclusion would you think is the correct one?
     
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