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310 Miles Totally Possible for M3P

UngaBunga1989

Member
Dec 30, 2018
279
499
NY Metro Area, United States
Today it was 35 degrees out and I did a 45 mile out and back (22.5 miles each way) that was 60% highway and 40% city. 500’ elevation change. 20” wheels with Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires. It was sunny out so I needed almost no climate control. Averaged 246 Wh/mi for the trip. Given that it was 35 degrees and that the M3P is rated at 241 Wh/mi for its 310 mile range, I see zero problem achieving that in better weather with less elevation change...
 

UngaBunga1989

Member
Dec 30, 2018
279
499
NY Metro Area, United States
The LR RWD will do 300 miles at 70 mph at 90º F. with AC and EAP on. That's 3 1/2 hours with 55 miles reserve. That exceeds my bladder ( I'm old).

That's awesome. I (obviously) opted for higher driver performance over range, but easily getting 275 miles on a charge (allowing for leaving "some in the tank") AND having the extra performance under foot is a "compromise" I was willing to make.
 

Orwell

Member
Oct 1, 2018
316
238
Atlanta
Today it was 35 degrees out and I did a 45 mile out and back (22.5 miles each way) that was 60% highway and 40% city. 500’ elevation change. 20” wheels with Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires. It was sunny out so I needed almost no climate control. Averaged 246 Wh/mi for the trip. Given that it was 35 degrees and that the M3P is rated at 241 Wh/mi for its 310 mile range, I see zero problem achieving that in better weather with less elevation change...

What software version do you have? I'm on the latest 50.6 (which didn't have anything new in the release notes).

I feel like my numbers have gotten better since the update a few days ago.

I've been expecting worse numbers since it's been cold down, but numbers are getting slightly better.
 

jbarnette

Member
Sep 8, 2018
21
19
Austin, TX
Be careful with these assumptions... This past November I took a road trip where I travelled in southern Missouri from the Tesla Supercharger near Sikeston, MO to the Tesla Supercharger at Springfield, MO, a distance of 241 miles. I drove between 60 and 70 mph in my long-range RWD with 19-inch sport wheels and standard tires starting at 98% charge and arrived with 4% charge!! Starting temperature was 60F and arrived to 32F with a headwind starting up mid-way through the trip and snow flurries as we traversed Springfield. Needless to say it was eye-opening (trip planner predicted arrival with 11% charge at start of trip). I knew this would be a tricky trip leg, but was visiting a friend in NW Arkansas and coming from Nashville, TN, this was by far the best option.
 

lolder

Member
Jun 11, 2016
880
672
SW Florida
Be careful with these assumptions... This past November I took a road trip where I travelled in southern Missouri from the Tesla Supercharger near Sikeston, MO to the Tesla Supercharger at Springfield, MO, a distance of 241 miles. I drove between 60 and 70 mph in my long-range RWD with 19-inch sport wheels and standard tires starting at 98% charge and arrived with 4% charge!! Starting temperature was 60F and arrived to 32F with a headwind starting up mid-way through the trip and snow flurries as we traversed Springfield. Needless to say it was eye-opening (trip planner predicted arrival with 11% charge at start of trip). I knew this would be a tricky trip leg, but was visiting a friend in NW Arkansas and coming from Nashville, TN, this was by far the best option.
Headwinds are almost the same as driving faster. A 20 mph headwind at 70 mph is like driving at about 90. Cold and road contamination add to the problem. The car uses energy more like an aircraft than a car.
 
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UngaBunga1989

Member
Dec 30, 2018
279
499
NY Metro Area, United States
Headwinds are almost the same as driving faster. A 20 mph headwind at 70 mph is like driving at about 90. Cold and road contamination add to the problem. The car uses energy more like an aircraft than a car.

ABSOLUTELY!!! My post was meant that 310 miles is possible in the M3P...NOT that you'd get it all the time and/or should expect it (or even close to it)! By way of example, just two days prior in a cold, driving rain storm with a massive headwind and some considerable elevation gain (1,000 ft.) and the heat set at 67 degrees, I averaged 370 Wh/mi over 25 miles and while this is the worst I have experienced so far since I got my M3P, taking all factors into estimating range is vital.
 

StealthP3D

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2018
8,629
63,243
Maple Falls, WA
Today it was 35 degrees out and I did a 45 mile out and back (22.5 miles each way) that was 60% highway and 40% city. 500’ elevation change. 20” wheels with Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires. It was sunny out so I needed almost no climate control. Averaged 246 Wh/mi for the trip. Given that it was 35 degrees and that the M3P is rated at 241 Wh/mi for its 310 mile range, I see zero problem achieving that in better weather with less elevation change...

Thanks for sharing that and it matches my experience once I adjust for the fact that my P3D has Aero wheels and will naturally do a little better in a similar scenario.

There is quite a bit of variation in real-world range depending upon what choices the driver makes and, even harder to pin down, individual driving styles. The driver decides things like what the cold tire pressure is, how warm/cool the cabin is and how much air the climate control system needs to heat/cool. And things like that can make quite a difference.

But the real unknown when someone reports unusually good or bad efficiency is how smooth they are as a driver. I've found the efficiency of the Model 3 to respond really well to a smooth, non-erratic driving style. And subtle differences in driving style can have outsized effects on efficiency, especially at speeds under 70 mph. Let me explain. Some people are naturally in tune and don't make unnecessary throttle inputs (followed by subtle regen). A relaxed, aware and skilled driver has better command of the momentum of their vehicle and the position of their vehicle relative to other traffic. This can pay big dividends over the course of a trip in terms of overall efficiency.

Higher travel speeds are the great equalizer. If you're bombing along at 75 mph, you're gonna be pushing a lot of air and there's not much you can do about that, you're simply not going to get greater than the rated range unless everything else lines up perfectly (elevation, tail winds, etc). Of course, if the route is not flat but instead is in gently rolling terrain, driver style can still have quite an impact on the actual efficiency at those speeds. Because rolling terrain requires good momentum management to avoid going into regen unnecessarily and repeatedly. In rolling terrain, the natural tendency of the cruise control/EAP to hold a precise speed means a good driver can easily beat the efficiency of the computer speed control.

Let's face it, we are all individuals, not machines. Humans have a lot of variabilities and not everyone will be a natural driver. Some people will be able to get major efficiency improvements by learning new skills and habits, some people will be frustrated and find that changing their ways is not really possible. Mostly it's a matter of wanting to change and paying attention and some will not want to be bothered. Those people will just have to live with less range and efficiency. And for most of those people, it really won't matter, it won't be the end of the world as long as their regular driving patterns are compatible with the range of their car as they drive it. And I would say even the Mid-Range Model 3 has more than enough range for the vast majority of people, even those who don't have a naturally efficient driving style.
All I'm really saying is that subtle differences between peoples natural driving styles is the one variable that is impossible to quantify and is the source of a large amount of the variability in reported efficiencies. Speed is a big one too but that is often accounted for and much easier to quantify.
 

wenkan

Member
Dec 31, 2018
564
510
Seattle
I was able to get 250wh/mile for a 20 miles leg on highway. Keep EAP on and follow the traffic then you can get it. One thing I realized later is the draft effect. Following a big SUV by EAP distance 2 definitely helps efficiency.
 

StealthP3D

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2018
8,629
63,243
Maple Falls, WA
I was able to get 250wh/mile for a 20 miles leg on highway. Keep EAP on and follow the traffic then you can get it. One thing I realized later is the draft effect. Following a big SUV by EAP distance 2 definitely helps efficiency.

Our M3P will use under 200Wh/mile if you simply use a road that you can travel a steady 55 mph on and don't need cabin heat and it's not too much below 40F. Of course, this is not possible if your name is Sammy Hagar:

 

Sophias_dad

Supporting Member
Jul 29, 2018
911
765
Massachusetts
Today it was 35 degrees out and I did a 45 mile out and back (22.5 miles each way) that was 60% highway and 40% city. 500’ elevation change. 20” wheels with Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires. It was sunny out so I needed almost no climate control. Averaged 246 Wh/mi for the trip. Given that it was 35 degrees and that the M3P is rated at 241 Wh/mi for its 310 mile range, I see zero problem achieving that in better weather with less elevation change...

I wonder how much of that range-extension is due to the PS4S's hardening up at those temperatures. They lose much of their grip, presumably because the rubber hardens so much it doesn't settle into the imperfections in the road.

"The Pilot Sport 4S excels in warm dry and wet conditions, so like all Max Performance Summer tires, is not intended to be serviced, stored nor driven in near- and below-freezing temperatures, through snow or on ice."
 

rcarpen22

Member
Aug 1, 2014
332
176
MD
Today it was 35 degrees out and I did a 45 mile out and back (22.5 miles each way) that was 60% highway and 40% city. 500’ elevation change. 20” wheels with Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires. It was sunny out so I needed almost no climate control. Averaged 246 Wh/mi for the trip. Given that it was 35 degrees and that the M3P is rated at 241 Wh/mi for its 310 mile range, I see zero problem achieving that in better weather with less elevation change...

Good lord, maybe my car is jacked up. My lifetime (3500 miles) efficiency is over 300 Wh/mi and it's well over 300 in that kind of temperature. That's just driving down the highway, not doing zero to sixty runs. Is that typical?
 

ryanjm

Tesla Podcast Host
Oct 10, 2009
630
531
San Francisco, CA
Good lord, maybe my car is jacked up. My lifetime (3500 miles) efficiency is over 300 Wh/mi and it's well over 300 in that kind of temperature. That's just driving down the highway, not doing zero to sixty runs. Is that typical?

My P3D+’s lifetime Wh/mi is 301 after about 7000 miles here in the always-temperate Bay Area, so I’m right there with you.
 

ewoodrick

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2018
5,285
3,721
Buford, GA
Today it was 35 degrees out and I did a 45 mile out and back (22.5 miles each way) that was 60% highway and 40% city. 500’ elevation change. 20” wheels with Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires. It was sunny out so I needed almost no climate control. Averaged 246 Wh/mi for the trip. Given that it was 35 degrees and that the M3P is rated at 241 Wh/mi for its 310 mile range, I see zero problem achieving that in better weather with less elevation change...

I don't think that there's really ever the question whether the Model 3 can hit the EPA numbers. The record, I believe, is over 600 miles. Indeed, temperature will drop it, but it isn't hard to hit the numbers.

What is much harder to do is to hit the numbers at 70 mph in the cold. Stay on surface streets and keep the speed down and the numbers can be hit, as you proved..
 

UngaBunga1989

Member
Dec 30, 2018
279
499
NY Metro Area, United States
I wonder how much of that range-extension is due to the PS4S's hardening up at those temperatures. They lose much of their grip, presumably because the rubber hardens so much it doesn't settle into the imperfections in the road.

"The Pilot Sport 4S excels in warm dry and wet conditions, so like all Max Performance Summer tires, is not intended to be serviced, stored nor driven in near- and below-freezing temperatures, through snow or on ice."

That is a bit of a myth about the tires. After a 15 minute drive they are plenty sticky even when it is 35 degrees out. The friction of rolling against the pavement provides more than enough heat. Should they be used below 20 degrees and/or in the snow? Heck no!
 

StealthP3D

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2018
8,629
63,243
Maple Falls, WA
That is a bit of a myth about the tires. After a 15 minute drive they are plenty sticky even when it is 35 degrees out. The friction of rolling against the pavement provides more than enough heat. Should they be used below 20 degrees and/or in the snow? Heck no!

That's absolutely correct. However, I like tires that also stop and corner quickly (in case I need to do evasive maneuvers) the first 15 minutes of any drive. And in a cold rain it can take longer than that. In fact, they're pretty much going to suck in cold rain forever. But, yeah, they could be driven carefully in a pinch.
 
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ℬête Noire

Active Member
Jan 30, 2018
3,105
2,556
TX
Our M3P will use under 200Wh/mile if you simply use a road that you can travel a steady 55 mph on and don't need cabin heat and it's not too much below 40F. Of course, this is not possible if your name is Sammy Hagar:

*stands up* I am Sammy Spartacus!

One thing that just destroys efficiency on AWD is quick stopping that gets into friction and then getting back up to highway (or even > 45mph as far as I've seen anecdotally) if you need any meaningful acceleration to get there. Suspect it digs deeper into the front, less efficient induction motor which pulls the average efficiency down.
 

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