36.X and Steering Wheel Weight?

[TenKOhms]

So someone posted in another thread:

i have a legacy model x so no cabin cam and i don't use a counter weight, but since 36.6 had 3 of these disengagements and service tech said the system flagged me as using a weight and disengaged without warning because of that. they said the algorithm judges the amount of torque on the wheel, and possibly the pressure i'm applying is consistent enough to make the system flag me as a false positive, and to avoid it they recommended i change the direction i'm applying pressure, or stop applying pressure periodically, etc.

it wouldn't surprise me if models with the cabin cam adjust how "inattentive" you can seem before disengaging if the system is also detecting a likely anti-nag device.

So seems like our suspicions of wheel weight detection are semi-confirmed.

Link to comment:

Cabin camera more aggressive in Autopilot 2022.36.2 update?

Thats what I was thinking. I used it again yesterday and seemed better (less inputs) but its certainly more demanding on 36.6. I'm gonna try a ball type weight (as would be giving more random type inputs to the wheel unlike a standard, fixed position weight) next time i use AP. BTW, with FSD on...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[SuperKirby]

With the weight it auto-disengages after 5-10 minutes or so without any warning. Without the weight it warns me to touch the wheel every 10-30 seconds or so. So definitely a wheel weight issue. Anyone upgrade to the new software yet? (I think it’s out?)

 

[Darmie]

For the weight testers, try a weight on each side of the wheel.

 

[TenKOhms]

For the weight testers, try a weight on each side of the wheel.

Maybe this is a dumb question, but wouldn’t that counteract each other when the wheel is straight or close to straight?

 

[wadood]

Maybe this is a dumb question, but wouldn’t that counteract each other when the wheel is straight or close to straight?

If the weights are from a different company brand — it may just work. I’ll try that.

 

[starmap]

Tesla should focus it's energy on more productive feature than trying to defeat counter weight.

For example, I would like my auto summon to work at least 10% of time. Or how about auto park being usable rather than my car becoming a nuisance at parking lots.

 

[TenKOhms]

Tesla should focus it's energy on more productive feature than trying to defeat counter weight.

For example, I would like my auto summon to work at least 10% of time. Or how about auto park being usable rather than my car becoming a nuisance at parking lots.

Auto summon, how about summon in general? I would say 8/10 times I use the normal forward/reverse summon out of my garage it doesnt work.

 

[2101Guy]

Tesla should focus it's energy on more productive feature than trying to defeat counter weight.

For example, I would like my auto summon to work at least 10% of time. Or how about auto park being usable rather than my car becoming a nuisance at parking lots.

I agree. Use the coders time more wisely. Like maybe, being able to not run up onto curbs or into green poles. Or delivering the robotaxi service that’s now four years late. Those are all higher priorities

 

[Dewg]

None of you are worried that using wheel weights will cause the driver to be more complacent and lead to slower reaction times if the system can't handle a situation? Yes, the driver is responsible for all accidents while on AP/FSD Beta, but that won't stop the headlines from coming out "Tesla Autopilot Slams Into Car", followed by a single sentence buried at the end of the article that says, "The driver admits they weren't paying attention as required by the car using Autopilot". Or more likely, "Tesla Autopilot Slams Into Car", followed by a statement from the driver saying "I was paying attention!!" and then "NHTSA is investigating the accident", which takes months for a follow up report that no one reads showing the driver was NOT paying attention. Everyone remember the article about the guy that slammed into the emergency vehicle, and claimed it was on Autopilot and it was the Tesla's fault? Then months later the report comes out from NHTSA showing the guy was eating breakfast, was not paying attention, and was ignoring the warnings from the car. Where was the article after that report that said "Tesla Autopilot Exonerated In Crash With Emergency Vehicle"? Unfortunately, that's not how our media operates in the US.

And the idea that all FSD engineers have to work on one thing at a time doesn't make sense. You're arguing that while a team is coding a system to detect wheel weights, no other team is working on other systems like the new occupancy network?

 

[BitJam]

Tesla should focus it's energy on more productive feature than trying to defeat counter weight.

Tell that to NHTSA. They are very concerned about people defeating driver monitoring. Tesla has to stay ahead of the curve or risk more recalls or worse. If NHTSA shuts down Tesla's beta program then it will throw a monkey wrench into FSD development. Personally, I'm glad to see Tesla pro-actively work to defeat counter-weights before they are forced to.

 

[2101Guy]

Tell that to NHTSA. They are very concerned about people defeating driver monitoring. Tesla has to stay ahead of the curve or risk more recalls or worse. If NHTSA shuts down Tesla's beta program then it will throw a monkey wrench into FSD development. Personally, I'm glad to see Tesla pro-actively work to defeat counter-weights before they are forced to.

Moot point. Elon promised hands free AP/FSD by 12/31/2022

"The car will be able to take you from your home to your work, your friend's house, the grocery store without you touching the wheel," he said.

 

[Darmie]

Moot point. Elon promised hands free AP/FSD by 12/31/2022

"The car will be able to take you from your home to your work, your friend's house, the grocery store without you touching the wheel," he said.

We may need to add two more weeks to that date.

 

[Darmie]

Maybe this is a dumb question, but wouldn’t that counteract each other when the wheel is straight or close to straight?

Only to be tested on a closed test track along with the help of Adam Savage

.
Place a weight on each side of the wheel. When the wheel moves slightly to one side or the other, there is always consistent weight on the wheel. This should simulate your hand resting on the wheel providing resistance in both directions.

 

[Graham J]

What might work is a device that goes over the left scroll wheel and nudges the volume alternately up and down every X time.

 

[wadood]

Tell that to NHTSA. They are very concerned about people defeating driver monitoring. Tesla has to stay ahead of the curve or risk more recalls or worse. If NHTSA shuts down Tesla's beta program then it will throw a monkey wrench into FSD development. Personally, I'm glad to see Tesla pro-actively work to defeat counter-weights before they are forced to.

This idea of touching wheel was just a short cut that Tesla took to save costs. It is a passive form of driver monitoring, which no self-respecting self driving software should employ. They should have put in active driver monitoring which almost all other competing self-driver technologies have. Touching wheel to tell the software that you are there is primitive.
Passive driver monitoring also does not prevent you from sleeping with the dead weight of your palm on the wheel while aggressive monitoring tracks your eyes and head. It also does not prevent you from putting one hand on the wheel and playing with phone with the other hand—while looking at the phone and not at the road.

On the other hand, aggressive Driver monitoring detects when you have fallen asleep or are inattentive. GM Supercruise, Ford Blue Cruise, Open Pilot, Mercedes Drive Pilot etc. are all hands free. They track the pupils of your eyes and if they detect inattentiveness for more than few seconds, they go berserk. They are all approved by NHSTA and according to this article (…) GM Supercruise (a completely hands free technology) has a much better highway safety record than Tesla’s AP.

I am coming to Tesla from hands free self-driving world and feel Tesla asking me to touch wheel while also keeping the wheel rigid is actually more dangerous.

 

[wadood]

Also, don’t believe in everything Elon tells you. INsurance Institute of Highway Safety (IIHS), whose guide lines many insurance companies use to determine their risk and our premium actually detects safety marks from AP because of its lack of proper driving monitoring systems, while it awards those points to Blue Cruise and Super Cruise.

This is from Consumer Reports
….
The Insurance Institute for Highway has a rating system for hands-free advanced driver-assistance systems like Tesla's Autopilot and General Motors' Super Cruise…Having a good driver-monitoring system is vital to getting a good grade. IIHS considers the safety of such tech features, adding points if there's a good driver-monitoring system. So far, only Super Cruise and Ford's BlueCruise systems are safe enough to get those extra points. Meanwhile, from model year 2024, IIHS will start subtracting points for cars that offer partial automation without proper driver monitoring…

 

[2101Guy]

Also, don’t believe in everything Elon tells you. INsurance Institute of Highway Safety (IIHS), whose guide lines many insurance companies use to determine their risk and our premium actually detects safety marks from AP because of its lack of proper driving monitoring systems, while it awards those points to Blue Cruise and Super Cruise.

This is from Consumer Reports
….
The Insurance Institute for Highway has a rating system for hands-free advanced driver-assistance systems like Tesla's Autopilot and General Motors' Super Cruise…Having a good driver-monitoring system is vital to getting a good grade. IIHS considers the safety of such tech features, adding points if there's a good driver-monitoring system. So far, only Super Cruise and Ford's BlueCruise systems are safe enough to get those extra points. Meanwhile, from model year 2024, IIHS will start subtracting points for cars that offer partial automation without proper driver monitoring…

So FAD, AP, FSDb, EAP…get NO points. NONE. That’s very eye opening..

 

[brancky3]

What might work is a device that goes over the left scroll wheel and nudges the volume alternately up and down every X time.

But then you're limited on changing your own volume. I'd much rather prefer a device that goes over the right scroll wheel since I never use it. Well, I use it on road trips to change the speed down/up every 20 seconds or so to avoid the nag

 

[Supcom]

Tesla should focus it's energy on more productive feature than trying to defeat counter weight.

For example, I would like my auto summon to work at least 10% of time. Or how about auto park being usable rather than my car becoming a nuisance at parking lots.

What makes you think that the same people who deal with the wheel nag are responsible for AI programming??

 

[wadood]

But then you're limited on changing your own volume. I'd much rather prefer a device that goes over the right scroll wheel since I never use it. Well, I use it on road trips to change the speed down/up every 20 seconds or so to avoid the nag

If you have a weight, then nag does not go away by tapping on the stalk or scrolling either wheels. Even before the latest update it’d ask you sometimes to nudge the wheel. The difference is that in the past, there’s be a flashing blue screen and now it disables auto Pilot without any warning.
One work around is to disengage and rengagr AP every 9 minutes.