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365 days of Solar Roof
- Thread starter egaertner
- Start date
Well, here's another rate setup... it looks like we are in a fairly rare area. We have straight rate electric, $.16/kW. No Net Metering either, it seems. So starting to look at the numbers, PWs are a benefit any time you shift 'free production' power to night time straight rate consumption. I think we may be the only home with a rate structure like this I have seen on TMC. So assuming enough power usage, the PW has the same rate of payback as PV, because there are no other payment incentives (other than tax credit.)
Yeah if we had 1:1 net metering then your production vs usage offset cleanly and your true up is $0 to profitable.
But pg&e’s EV2A rate is 2.8x higher at peak than off peak.
A neighbor behind me bought solar a few years ago and sized to 110% annual demand. Last year he got an EV but then didn’t drive much due to sheltering.
His true up bill went from $200 in 2019 to $1,600 in 2020 after his rate plan changed.
He wanted to just put more solar on his roof to generate more credits, but of course PG&E won’t let him because his actual demand hasn’t increased... the only thing that went up was his cost due to the imbalance of what he generated vs what he used.
PG&E told him to stop charging his EV at peak time, but he’s not doing that. they pointed him to resources to lower usage during peak time and told him the same song and dance to behavior modify to save money.
But pg&e’s EV2A rate is 2.8x higher at peak than off peak.
A neighbor behind me bought solar a few years ago and sized to 110% annual demand. Last year he got an EV but then didn’t drive much due to sheltering.
His true up bill went from $200 in 2019 to $1,600 in 2020 after his rate plan changed.
He wanted to just put more solar on his roof to generate more credits, but of course PG&E won’t let him because his actual demand hasn’t increased... the only thing that went up was his cost due to the imbalance of what he generated vs what he used.
PG&E told him to stop charging his EV at peak time, but he’s not doing that. they pointed him to resources to lower usage during peak time and told him the same song and dance to behavior modify to save money.
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That is true, but it seems like more and more power companies are switching to some sort of Time of Use structure. It makes sense from their perspective since they have to size the power generation/purchases to the peak windows of M-F afternoon and evenings when everyone comes home and turns on their A/Cs, cooks dinner, etc. And with nuclear and fossil fuel plants being taken offline this need will only get worse. Even my friends in the NW where electricity is very cheap, $0.09, 24/7 are looking at some sort of storage. This is because their utilities can sell the power to other providers to improve their bottom line, rather than local customers.
Well, if your neighbor is charging their EV at peak instead of with EV2A with the deep discounted off-peak rate then that is on him. I get not wanting to time shift laundry, dish washer, other life stuff, but that car is just sitting in the garage overnight and it should be trivial to have it wait until midnight to start charging.
EV2-a non peak is until 3pm. So one can charge in the morning if one wants.
You have a very solar and distributed ESS friendly electric utility in Green Mountain Power. There is an article about how they passed $3m in savings back to customers and that they had "control" over 2,567 Powerwalls that total 13MW. This works out to $1,167/per PW which seems high as it seems like you have more than one and only got $1,000. Might be the article or it might be how much each individual system is contributing to the savings.
Your situation is a rarity and those Powerwalls can pay for themselves in that model.
Holeydonut said the neighbor was not charging during peak, PG&E just accused him of doing that.
Ok, I can see where I may have misunderstood "his isn't doing that" to be "he doesn't want to stop charging at peak" versus "he isn't charging during peak".
No, I meant he's not charging his EV at peak. He's never charged his EV at peak. PG&E assumes he is, and he said he wasn't doing that.
But PG&E naturally assumes everyone is an idiot and their own behavior is the problem. This is the gaslighting I'm talking about where PG&E blames the homeowner to deflect blame from themselves. This guy literally did nothing except change from E6 to EV2A because he got an EV. He barely drives the EV because he works from home like many of us do. And now the TOU is making his "net metering" not net out the way it was.
But he's definitely not getting batteries. Aside from not having access to the ITC anymore, he's seen the countless times Sunrun has been to my house and knows how difficult PG&E makes it is to get ESS. So PG&E's tactics of making things ultra painful really do help protect their bottom line.
I just think it's funny he was willing to add some more solar panels to his roof to get more generation to offset the EV2A TOU (basically generate more off-peak credit to pay for his peak usage). But PG&E won't let him.
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The EV2A rate isn't good unless you have a large demand in the off-peak hours and most of the excess solar production is now being sent back as off-peak that runs to 3:00pm. Switching to E-TOU-C should save your neighbor at true-up.
If you have an EV, you have to be on EV2A unless you get that weird fancy meter thing and go on EV2B. Not that the rates are much better or easier to manage on EV2B.
The absolute worst of the worst is to get an EV but not have any solar. One of my neighbors has a EV but no solar at all. His EV has been sitting on his driveway for a year since he stopped commuting into SF as well. His Feb 11 - Mar 11 2021 electricity bill (800 kWh) was $265. In the summer months last year, his electricity bill (mind you he wasn't even driving his EV) was $650. None of us have pools or things that would take a shocking (pun) amount of electricity.
I don't think you have to go on EV2-A if you have an EV, I have a Model S since 2018 and never been asked to switch, I believe I even got a rebate from PG&E when I installed the NEMA 14-30 to charge the car. I'm still on E-1 Tiered, but my Interconnection Agreement says I have to switch to E-TOU-C after PTO which I am still waiting for. Most people in PG&E territory will be switched to E-TOU-C sometime this year by default, though you can opt out and stay on E-1 Tiered if desired. I wouldn't mind staying on E-1 after PTO if they let me, EV2-A could be good if you have a long commute and need to charge a lot everyday.
Utilities in MA and CT (and maybe RI?) also participate in the ConnectedSolutions program, and MA’s SMART program provides the extra $ per kWh generated if you have storage even if the energy is never stored. So, while not a nationwide program by any means, it’s less of a rarity than just one provider in VT.
If you get the seperate meter then that be meter must be on EV-B, but otherwise it seems to be optional. Also, only that meter is on that tariff the rest of the house on the original meter can be on another tariff.
The EV FAQ page has an entry for "If I try the EV-2 rate and don't like it, can I change to another rate?". The answer is yes with E-1, time-of-use (E-TOU) or EV-B as options.
Cool, I'll let my neighbors know he can try to switch to E-TOU-C to see if it helps since neither are charging their EV much.
I guess the one without solar can try to get back on E1, but I think they sunset that program for new enrollments since PG&E is pushing everyone to TOU where possible.
I guess the one without solar can try to get back on E1, but I think they sunset that program for new enrollments since PG&E is pushing everyone to TOU where possible.
Great to see these systems are getting installed, but rough to see the production so low compared with cheap retrofit panels. Do you mind sharing your layout specifics, so I can look at your production in more granular detail compared with a computer modeled system?
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