3G Pricing - Speculation

[ModelS1079]

Love this car, so if I am whining it is my wallet whining, not me. But it is feeling under appreciated. My wallet has been working hard of late to support my Tesla.

We are beyond the early adopters, we the Faithful who would buy Elon a new house if the plumbing failed in his current home, and it is time to get this amazing car into the hands of as many as feasible. These costs are not trivial, and are eating up the cost savings an EV otherwise provides. We just lost a sale in California - great guy, stepping into an Audi 8, who felt peppered by significant additional costs as he designed his car and reviewed his agreement.

I can understand this:
I drive about 15,000 miles/year - bet you drive at least that as well.
That's 6 1/2 years to 100K miles.

Cost:
$2340 in 3G connectivity: $30/month putative 3G cost.
$6,300 in 100K Service Plan and Extended Service plan ($3800 plus $2500), that's $81/month.
Tech Package cost - okay, I won't add that but I did anticipate that would include 3G connectivity, without premium subscriptions. Nav requires it - not the Navgon dash component, but the touchscreen Maps does, and that is the cornerstone of the NAV function - I mean it is one of the very the first things everyone is blown away by when they get into the car.

That's $111/month for 6.5 years/100K miles; if you drop your extended service plans (make it $1900 only, 4 service updates over 50K miles or 3.3 years, with no warranty extension: 15K miles per year for 3.3 years or 50K miles), then you are at $1200 3G plus $1900 four service updates = $3100 = $78/month for 40 months/50K miles. Kind of eats into that gas savings.

I do not think it unreasonable that connectivity for Maps, Mobile App, non video web browsing (eats no data) be included, certainly with the tech package, ideally for all the cars. I disagree that this is anything more than a small incremental cost for Tesla. Yes it is a loss of significant revenue, but it is revenue they should not seek. This car is built for connectivity, and at the current cost, certainly when including the tech package and service with software support, it should be included. Really.

 

[gregincal]

My choice would be this:

Maps and app access - free (it's up to them whether they want to improve the map display to not require downloading data), but these are integral parts of the car interface (Maps certainly is with Tech, and I paid a lot for it).
Connectivity package - $15/month including slacker subscription (same price as XM radio), also gives you web browsing.

 

[Hank42]

Love this car, so if I am whining it is my wallet whining, not me. But it is feeling under appreciated. My wallet has been working hard of late to support my Tesla.

We are beyond the early adopters, we the Faithful who would buy Elon a new house if the plumbing failed in his current home, and it is time to get this amazing car into the hands of as many as feasible. These costs are not trivial, and are eating up the cost savings an EV otherwise provides. We just lost a sale in California - great guy, stepping into an Audi 8, who felt peppered by significant additional costs as he designed his car and reviewed his agreement.

I can understand this:
I drive about 15,000 miles/year - bet you drive at least that as well.
That's 6 1/2 years to 100K miles.

Cost:
$2340 in 3G connectivity: $30/month putative 3G cost.
$6,300 in 100K Service Plan and Extended Service plan ($3800 plus $2500), that's $81/month.
Tech Package cost - okay, I won't add that but I did anticipate that would include 3G connectivity, without premium subscriptions. Nav requires it - not the Navgon dash component, but the touchscreen Maps does, and that is the cornerstone of the NAV function - I mean it is one of the very the first things everyone is blown away by when they get into the car.

That's $111/month for 6.5 years/100K miles; if you drop your extended service plans (make it $1900 only, 4 service updates over 50K miles or 3.3 years, with no warranty extension: 15K miles per year for 3.3 years or 50K miles), then you are at $1200 3G plus $1900 four service updates = $3100 = $78/month for 40 months/50K miles. Kind of eats into that gas savings.

I do not think it unreasonable that connectivity for Maps, Mobile App, non video web browsing (eats no data) be included, certainly with the tech package, ideally for all the cars. I disagree that this is anything more than a small incremental cost for Tesla. Yes it is a loss of significant revenue, but it is revenue they should not seek. This car is built for connectivity, and at the current cost, certainly when including the tech package and service with software support, it should be included. Really.

+1

The one thing EVERYONE who's sat in my car has been able to conclude is that no engine/transmission == no(less) maintenance. "So you mean I don't have to change the oil?"
Those costs might be amplified in their minds, but as Models1079 pointed out, it's really hard to have to tell them that those costs will be replaced by more expensive costs for seemingly trivial functionality. Sure the maps are cool, but not *THAT* much cooler when you have to pay a monthly fee that is NOT insignificant.

$12.95 for XM [optional]

$30(+?) for 3G
$xx for service plan that covers what exactly? (vs. Warranty)

And which of the above(2) do I _need_ to get software updates which are crucial for the car. If I don't get 3g, or the service plan, will I get the software updates to deliver on the features that were promised(missing)???

 

[islandbayy]

Sorry if I am going off topic,
Www.Ting.com

$6/month starting cost $29.99 for mobile hotspot device.
You can start off at no plan. they have tired data. So if you use data below first terr, that's the additional you pay. under tier 2 you pay teer 2. etc.... once you hit 4 gigs in a month cost is around a penny per meg.

if you don't use any data in a month all you have paid is $6

 

[SFOTurtle]

Love this car, so if I am whining it is my wallet whining, not me. But it is feeling under appreciated. My wallet has been working hard of late to support my Tesla.

We are beyond the early adopters, we the Faithful who would buy Elon a new house if the plumbing failed in his current home, and it is time to get this amazing car into the hands of as many as feasible. These costs are not trivial, and are eating up the cost savings an EV otherwise provides. We just lost a sale in California - great guy, stepping into an Audi 8, who felt peppered by significant additional costs as he designed his car and reviewed his agreement.

I can understand this:
I drive about 15,000 miles/year - bet you drive at least that as well.
That's 6 1/2 years to 100K miles.

Cost:
$2340 in 3G connectivity: $30/month putative 3G cost.
$6,300 in 100K Service Plan and Extended Service plan ($3800 plus $2500), that's $81/month.
Tech Package cost - okay, I won't add that but I did anticipate that would include 3G connectivity, without premium subscriptions. Nav requires it - not the Navgon dash component, but the touchscreen Maps does, and that is the cornerstone of the NAV function - I mean it is one of the very the first things everyone is blown away by when they get into the car.

That's $111/month for 6.5 years/100K miles; if you drop your extended service plans (make it $1900 only, 4 service updates over 50K miles or 3.3 years, with no warranty extension: 15K miles per year for 3.3 years or 50K miles), then you are at $1200 3G plus $1900 four service updates = $3100 = $78/month for 40 months/50K miles. Kind of eats into that gas savings.

I do not think it unreasonable that connectivity for Maps, Mobile App, non video web browsing (eats no data) be included, certainly with the tech package, ideally for all the cars. I disagree that this is anything more than a small incremental cost for Tesla. Yes it is a loss of significant revenue, but it is revenue they should not seek. This car is built for connectivity, and at the current cost, certainly when including the tech package and service with software support, it should be included. Really.

+1. Well said.

 

[jomo25]

I'll actually be glad to be free of the 3G so I stop browsing the web while driving!!! Highly impressive to be able to have the web on the touchscreen but also plain stupid!

Its actually safer to use my phone (since I don't have to lean over to the right to use my phone!!!).

I echo SFO's request to file a drive itinerary with us so we can stay clear of the roads when you swerve through the greater Phoenix metro area.

 

[kinddog]

But I think $30 is a lot for what it A) really slow service and B) Doesn't serve much function..

exactly.

 

[Todd Burch]

For those thinking of skipping the connectivity plan, remember the voice recognition is all done over the net via Google Voice. So you'd lose that too.

For the record I agree $30/month is too much for 3G.

 

[shokunin]

If they upgraded this to 4G/LTE at $30 a month would that be more reasonable? For 3G I agree, it sucks.

This only applies to those who opted for the tech package..

I only ask because it's not our fault they decided to not provide any OFFLINE maps like everyone else does. When you tell some one a car has navigation, they are going to presume (rightly or wrongly) a guided map overview with turn by turn directions or the ability to zoom in or out if you get lost. Remember a lot of us took deliveries and ordered the car without all the micro-details.

Google maps has this capability to download all map / street data within a certain distance on Android. Can't see why they could not add this feature and use wifi to download the data. I can download nearly all of Los Angeles, Orange, and parts of San Bernardino counties on an android tablet.

For my usage, I could get rid of slacker radio, all I really want is the google maps with traffic data. I guess I could live without the traffic data, but seems silly to pay $360 a year for onscreen maps that should've been included.

 

[SUPRKAR]

The voice recognition in the MS is horrible, controls very little and does so poorly. Slacker does not play any song requested. I have had a couple of close calls attempting to find the song requested from a list. Use the voice dial feature and again having to look at the screen to select the correct number, work cell etc. how about concentrating on getting the features promised working at least as well as a rental Hyundai Sonata. How about, call john work, voice confirmation from MS then initiate dialing. what happened to the panoramic roof shade, lighted sun visors, lower cost for maintenance, center opportunity console, delivery wherever it makes you smile and much more. I was expecting much more in the way of interior technology in this car. I assumed it would have it, now I know what the, when you assume saying feels like. Also I was under the impression the vehicle was driven quite a bit prior to the final release and start of production. I do not recall seeing any information about full battery charging not being good for battery life. I would also nave appreciated knowing the 300 mile battery would not go 300 miles, again thinking after all the beta testing Tesla would know how far the car would go in real life. I expect bull from GM Ford and the like but I expected more from Tesla. The car is fast and fun to drive but when the novelty wears off you I will have an electric car without the bells and whistles. I am sure I will now be yelled at but I am just expressing how I feel, somewhat disappointed

 

[dsm363]

The voice recognition in the MS is horrible, controls very little and does so poorly. Slacker does not play any song requested. I have had a couple of close calls attempting to find the song requested from a list. Use the voice dial feature and again having to look at the screen to select the correct number, work cell etc. how about concentrating on getting the features promised working at least as well as a rental Hyundai Sonata. How about, call john work, voice confirmation from MS then initiate dialing. what happened to the panoramic roof shade, lighted sun visors, lower cost for maintenance, center opportunity console, delivery wherever it makes you smile and much more. I was expecting much more in the way of interior technology in this car. I assumed it would have it, now I know what the, when you assume saying feels like. Also I was under the impression the vehicle was driven quite a bit prior to the final release and start of production. I do not recall seeing any information about full battery charging not being good for battery life. I would also nave appreciated knowing the 300 mile battery would not go 300 miles, again thinking after all the beta testing Tesla would know how far the car would go in real life. I expect bull from GM Ford and the like but I expected more from Tesla. The car is fast and fun to drive but when the novelty wears off you I will have an electric car without the bells and whistles. I am sure I will now be yelled at but I am just expressing how I feel, somewhat disappointed

Did you read any reviews about the car or see the EPA rating before you bought it? They've said for well over a year that the 300 miles was at 55mph and that the EPA rating was 265 miles. The voice recognition on my car at least works fairly well. It doesn't control much at this point but that should be corrected with future updates. They posted this almost a year ago
Model S Efficiency and Range | Blog | Tesla Motors

 

[vfx]

...You can think of it as being required t pay $2880 more for a nav system that one thought was already paid for.....

Except there is the navgon. Which I think should fill the full screen if wanted.

 

[bonnie]

You know, that is an awful lot of money for a corp to just absorb. But then again, $2880 is alot for an individual to just absorb. You can think of it as being required t pay $2880 more for a nav system that one thought was already paid for.

I'm still not advocating it be free. Just in line with reasonable pricing. $10 per month? Fair. $30 per month? Robbery.

They never said that the 3G service would be free. It's a bit disingenuous to claim that you thought the nav system was already paid for, when we all were waiting on the 3G pricing to be announced.

When you say 'robbery', are you referring to Tesla or to the wireless service providers? The fee seems to be in line with what AT&T charges most of us.

- - - Updated - - -

And to be fair, NO one knows that $30/month is the fee. This is all speculation. It may be right, or, people may be getting worked up over nothing.

 

[vfx]

...cost... = $3100 = $78/month for 40 months/50K miles. Kind of eats into that gas savings. ...

And tires. In the Roadster, tires nearly equal fuel savings. I blame myself though.

 

[bonnie]

And tires. In the Roadster tires nearly equal fuel savings. I blame myself though.

As you should. And I blame myself for my tire situation. Tesla shouldn't make their cars so fun to drive. But lord, it's fun.

 

[SUPRKAR]

Did you read any reviews about the car or see the EPA rating before you bought it? They've said for well over a year that the 300 miles was at 55mph and that the EPA rating was 265 miles. The voice recognition on my car at least works fairly well. It doesn't control much at this point but that should be corrected with future updates. They posted this almost a year ago
Model S Efficiency and Range | Blog | Tesla Motors

Then when it was posted a year ago why was the configuration page not updated? That is where I took my information. It states that now but not then. And you are right updates could change many things, but will I still be alive by then. Like I mentioned where is communication on pano shade, sun visors, opportunity console to name a few. Not a word since promised. So why would I expect any change to the functions we now have, and the navigation on the large screen is a waste. Google maps that can not point in the direction of travel. Come on

 

[jpasqua]

I realize that this $30/month for 3G discussion is purely speculative at this point, but here are my thoughts.

First, when I was looking at the car I was told that the details of the cellular service hadn't been finalized but that owners would be able to pay for service or tether their existing phone if they had that service available. I was given no details on price and no information on 3G vs 4G/LTE.

I pay $15/month for Verizon LTE on my iPad. The service is ridiculously fast and 2GB would be fine for my use in the car. I would be very happy with this same pricing and the option for a higher cap for more $.

To state the obvious, $30/month for 3G is not a good deal. At those rates I would definitely use a 4G hotspot (assuming the car supports wifi). Not only is it cheaper and faster, but it would also allow passengers to "piggyback" on one plan. In that case I might leave a couple of wifi-only tablets in the car for use by passengers. I know these choices aren't right for everyone - I'm just sharing what I would do. Frankly, that's what I'd love to see directly from Tesla: 4G, $15/month for 2GB, wifi hotspot capability for 4 other devices.

Finally, I bought the tech package and expected to have a fully functional nav system with or without a cellular data connection. By fully functional I mean at least as good as a handheld Garmin or TomTom. Of course in buying a Tesla, I thought it would be better than that.

<digression>Tesla is not going to get everything "right" at once, nor do they need to in order to be successful. It is very often the case that products which represent disruptive innovation often lag behind traditional products in some metrics while blowing them away in others. (See "Innovator's Dilemma" by Christensen). Look at the original iPhone. It was incredible and changed the way people thought about phones, but the first version didn't have cut&paste or native apps. This doesn't mean I won't encourage, prod, and cajole Tesla to keep making everything better. It just means that I'm not surprised that they didn't get everything right in the first go-around.</digression>

Here's hoping that when Tesla does announce their current plans and roadmap, we'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

[AnOutsider]

Anyone have an idea how much data the average S gobbles up? I wonder if Tesla monitored usage for the first few months, then went to the carriers asking for a plan to fit the usage levels they observed.

 

[jomo25]

They never said that the 3G service would be free. It's a bit disingenuous to claim that you thought the nav system was already paid for, when we all were waiting on the 3G pricing to be announced.

When you say 'robbery', are you referring to Tesla or to the wireless service providers? The fee seems to be in line with what AT&T charges most of us.

- - - Updated - - -

And to be fair, NO one knows that $30/month is the fee. This is all speculation. It may be right, or, people may be getting worked up over nothing.

Please. No where did I say it should be free. Even in the text you quote, I noted $10/mo is fair. And sorry, navigation, full functioning navigation that is, shouldn't need to rely on 3G that needs to be paid for separately. But sure, I'd be willing to pay the $10/month to help the nav be what it should be.

Robbery from both. I'll say it again. Tesla isn't paying $30/month per car. I'd love to see proof that they are. And only then, I'd say fire the Procurement team.

Of course, I would happily use a Hotspot instead of having the car hooked up directly at ANY price. I already have multiple devices on my plan that can function as a hotspot. So, I wouldn't cre about this thread at all if I could use a hotspot. Oh right, I can't cuz WiFi, which WAS promised doesn't yet exist. Simple firmware update you say? That would be great. But even implementing very simple updates like scheduled charging took quite the while and 4.3 wasn't released without issues. Tesla hasn't been inspiring much confidence in their firmware stability. So I worry it might be a while (if ever) before we see WiFi. I pray for it, cuz then, I can let other people pay whatever per month for the 3G and not worry.

 

[ModelS1079]

...Oh right, I can't cuz WiFi, which WAS promised doesn't yet exist. Simple firmware update you say? That would be great. But even implementing very simple updates like scheduled charging took quite the while and 4.3 wasn't released without issues. Tesla hasn't been inspiring much confidence in their firmware stability. So I worry it might be a while (if ever) before we see WiFi. I pray for it, cuz then, I can let other people pay whatever per month for the 3G and not worry.

I am concerned about additional costs, but I am not bitter. Nine months and four days ago, Tesla VIN P0001 left the factory. To say they are not blowing away all expectations is, well - aren't they? Charge timing took 100 days from the first non-sig delivery. I can wait for a parcel shelf and - mark my words - Tesla wil address all your concerns above, while you are still living. I do disagree with many here who say we should assume connectivity for Maps will cost more despite buying the tech package, and I think it a great idea to include current connectivity in the tech package and/or service plan. But in regards to Tesla meeting my expectations? Breathless. Four years ago today the US Loan, Panasonic, Daimler and Toyota as well as a factory in Freemont were all but hopes in the head of a millionaire borrowing cash and a place to crash from a friend. I can wait for the next voice recognition upgrade.

And I hope Tesla pulls an industry-disrupting shocker and provides connectivity with all it's cars. Blow the competition back to the 20th Century. Imagine if they provided free chargng at Supercharge stations too? Imagine...