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3rd row crash safety?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by balefire, Apr 7, 2014.

  1. balefire

    balefire Member

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    #1 balefire, Apr 7, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2014
    The other 3rd row thread from 2011 was huge and unwieldy...
    http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/6427-Rear-jump-seats

    Just curious if there are any official crash test eval of our 3rd row? Either from Tesla or NHTSA?
    I read somewhere Musk tested it to 70mph?
    And the NHTSA doesnt routinely test the 3rd row?

    EDIT:
    after some research...
    the NHTSA does not routiniely do rear impact testing nor does it test the 3rd row.
    the IIHS does a rear "impact" sled test to study whiplash but does not actually crash the car

    So I guess the only official data would be internal Tesla data?
    And I'm guessing Tesla has no impetus to release that data which could only be used against them...
     
  2. AndreyATC

    AndreyATC Member

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    I'd like to know as well
    However, how's the child head is protected with side impact?
    Jump seats are pretty flat with no side protection, which are standard on booster seats and child head is pretty close to plastic trim from trunk cover rail
     
  3. paco3791

    paco3791 TMC OG

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    +1, still looking for official testing results.
     
  4. Moparposterchild

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    +1 here too. Would love to see some real data regarding this.
     
  5. Lerxt

    Lerxt Member

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    This is the reason, I'm sure, why the 3rd row seats are not allowed in Hong Kong and Australia. Cannot prove the safety in official tests.
     
  6. Smelias

    Smelias Member

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    Interesting. Did not know that.
     
  7. NielsChr

    NielsChr Member

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  8. JST

    JST Active Member

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    From what's been posted here, the rear seats are not permissible in HK because the bottom cushions are not long enough to meet the definition of "seat" under the relevant statute. The regs there apparently have no provision for child-only seats in cars.
     
  9. paco3791

    paco3791 TMC OG

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    I agree that this real world example is very encouraging, as is the fact that Elon reportedly puts his own kids in the jump seats. But, its no substitute for for actual testing. I'm not "worried", I but my oldest in the jump seats on a regular basis. I would just be really interested in any test results that pertain to the third row, preferably third party testing, but I'm not that picky.
     
  10. AndreyATC

    AndreyATC Member

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    Chances of getting rear-ended by such a small car in US is almost zero
    We have millions of pickup trucks, SUVs and minivans on the road
    All those things are pretty heavy and will create much greater impact force
    I'm still wondering what happens when you get hit from the side
    There are no airbags for rear jump seat, right?

    I'm thinking if i should add some padding on each side of the seats, right where the cover rails are
    They are perfectly aligned with child head
     
  11. jaguar36

    jaguar36 Member

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    The 3rd row is probably a safer place to be than the 2nd row. For one, rear impacts are typically much less dangerous than head-on and side impacts. The speed differentials are generally much lower. Since the jump seats are rear facing, in a head-on collision (the most likely to result in serious injuries) the occupants of the third row will be much better off. For side impacts, the seats are closer to the middle of the car than the 2nd row outboard seats. As for the lack of head protection on the sides, the seats are for kids 35-70lbs, only children at the bottom end of that range would be sitting in a seat with side head protection. For kids in the upper end of the range they're going to be significantly safer wearing the 5-point harness than the 3 point belt on a booster in the 2nd row.

    Lastly, while I'm sure everyone here has their car seats installed correctly, 75% of them are not installed correctly, and with the OEM jump seats, there is no danger of that.
     
  12. paco3791

    paco3791 TMC OG

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    All good points and all points that I have thought about and explained to others who have asked, though not to this level of detail. All that being said your and my assumptions are no substitute for actual data and test results, especially from an independent third party. As I said before, I'm not worried about it, I trust Tesla and my own assessment of the seats, but I would be very interested to see the data.

    Another question is why it wasn't tested with all of the other seats during the regular crash testing? I can only assume that it wasn't "required", probably because this type of seat is so rare, and so Tesla chose not to. They had/have enough other things to do and were probably satisfied with their own internal testing, which they are not obligated to share with anyone.
     
  13. ken830

    ken830 Model S (Res#P12,447)

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    Choose what? If you're referring to the NHTSA crash test, Tesla has zero say in what gets tested. The NHTSA purchases the vehicles and runs the tests completely independently -- the way it should be.
     
  14. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    Right, and as I recall, there was barely room for the rear seat with all the monitoring equipment. Also I doubt the NHTSA has a procedure for testing the jump seats.
     
  15. paco3791

    paco3791 TMC OG

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    This is more what I was trying to refer too.
     
  16. EarlyAdopter

    EarlyAdopter Active Member

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    Some of the best info on crash safety was given by Elon at the Model S reveal back in 2011.

    Specifically, for the rear facing seats, Elon notes that "the third row is the safest place in the car for a front or side impact" and that "even in a rear impact, double octagonal crash structures prevent ingress into the rear compartment."

    Beta Reveal (Pt. 1): Intro Safety - YouTube

    As for testing, I also remember Elon mentioned elsewhere that normal crash test requirements call for rear impact testing at 30 mph, full offset (spreading the crash forces across the whole rear), but Tesla tested the Model S to 55 mph, half offset (concentrating the crash forces), as a worse case scenario and their testing and modeling show a low likelihood of significant injuries to occupants of the third row. I'll see if I can find the specific video where he said that.
     
  17. EarlyAdopter

    EarlyAdopter Active Member

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    Ok, I can't find the video (I think it might have been at an annual shareholders meeting), but I can find many references to it, and a specific mention in Tesla's press release regarding the NHTSA test results:

    Tesla Model S Achieves Best Safety Rating of Any Car Ever Tested | Press Releases | Tesla Motors
    Basically, the rear of the car, when ordered with the rear facing seats, has been designed and tested to withstand a rear impact, offset, at 55 mph - as if you were sitting on the shoulder of a highway and someone veered off and rear ended you.
     
  18. paco3791

    paco3791 TMC OG

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    Thanks EarlyAdopter, nice summary. I knew about some of these but not all of them. Did the NHTSA do any rear end crashes in their testing? The first statement you referenced from Elon would seem to indacte that they would do some, but I don't remember any in the test results that were released.
     
  19. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    If they did, they haven't released any results. Looking at the amount of monitoring equipment in the back, they would have had to use a different car and put the monitoring equipment in the frunk. Tesla may have commissioned some rear testing on their own.
     
  20. paco3791

    paco3791 TMC OG

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    Bummer, I was hoping someone had seen something I hadn't. I'm sure Tesla has done a metric **** ton of simulations for every conceivable crash type, including to the rear. But I guess I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla did not do any more physical crash tests than are strictly required. Which to be clear I am fine with. Simulations of sufficient complexity probably tell you just as much as crash dummies these days.

    Doesn't mean I still wouldn't love to see the data or some independent testing at some point to see how it compares (quite well I suspect) to other vehicles with a third row.
     

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