4-Year Service History and Battery Loss - Model S

[sgblank]

My Four Year Service History
Picked up Model S P85 from the factory 3/11/13, VIN P6xxx 51,645 miles

2013

• HPWC in my garage failed
  • ranger came and the replaced HPWC fuses
• Pano roof chewed up its rails and wouldn’t open
  • Service replaced Pano roof

2014

• Car destroyed a set of tires after 12,000 miles
  • service installed Front Lower Control Arm Washers and performed wheel alignment – service claimed this was normal wear - I bought new tires
• Water was collecting in the tail light
  • service replaced tail light assembly
• Charge port ring showing multi colors
  • service replaced charge port (it’s doing it again, but I now like the colors)
  • Service proactively replaced the 12 volt battery
• 9 months later I got another “12V Battery Needs Service Alert”
  • service replaced the 12V Battery again
• Right rear door handle wouldn’t open
  • service replaced the door handle

2015

• Left rear door handle opened randomly
  • service replaced all door handles with Gen 2 handles
  • service noticed intelligent battery sensor was corroded – they replaced it
• I got the drivetrain squeal
  • service replaced the drive train
  • service upgraded the Side Motor Mount

  • service replaced rear upper control arms with an updated revision
• Tire Pressure Monitoring Sensor alert was on all the time
  • Replaced two wheel sensors and added external antenna

2016

• Drivers window fell down and wouldn’t close
  • service repaired the window
• vanity mirror cover broke off, drivers’ side
  • service replaced when I brought it in for a 2017 repair

2017

• Came back from a 3-week vacation (with car plugged in and charging) to find a “12V Battery needs Service” warning
  • service replaced the battery but also found I needed new tires (my 2nd set)
  • When they tried to align the wheels they found that the areas for both camber control arm adjustments cams are grooved in to the subframe. They replaced the front subframe assembly.
• Got the car back from service and it made a creaking sound coming from the left front.
  • Brought it back in and they found that the left side bracket to front sway bar was loose. They tightened the bolt and torqued all the other suspension bolts

Total 4-year maintenance cost - two sets of tires.

Range anxiety
For the first few months I had my car I was consumed by range anxiety. What happens if I run out of electricity? There were few chargers around. After about 6 months my fears gradually diminished and today, except for the occasional 400-mile trip, I don’t even think about range. Here’s why:

1. I learned how far my normal trips would take and how much actual range my P85 had (~180 miles at 90% charge.)
2. I installed HPWC’s at my home and work (55 miles apart)
3. I charge every night so it’s like having a gas station in my house
4. There were 7 superchargers in the entire world when I got my car. Today, California alone has ~50.
5. I bought a CHAdeMO adapter as a security blanket (I’ve never used it.)
6. I signed up for all the 3rd party charging services as another security blanket; Blink, NRG, SemaConnect, EvGo and Chargepoint. I think I’ve used Blink and Chargepoint ten times.
7. I’ve done several Silicon Valley to San Diego trips (~500 miles) without worrying.

Battery degradation worries
Initially, I was worried about battery degradation over the lifetime of my car. In 2013 there was no real data. So how much range would I have left as the car got older?

The good news, my initial range at 100% charge was 265 miles.
Today after four years and 51,000 miles amazingly it’s 260 miles. That’s about a 2% loss.
(I keep the car charged at 90% and have range charged less than 20 times.
My bet some of the that is due to a change in the algorithm in calculating max range.

Energy Consumption
Over four years my energy consumption has decreased from ~340wh/mile to ~325 wh/mile

 

[jschwefel]

Thanks for posting this. It was interesting and useful. How do you like the car? How would you rate the overall experience?

 

[sgblank]

Thanks for posting this. It was interesting and useful. How do you like the car? How would you rate the overall experience?

A few thoughts after four years:
1. Electric Cars are the future
I’m never going back to an internal combustion engine. I have no doubt in another decade or two, 25-50% of cars will be electric. The only question is when and whose brand. I’m looking forward to my next Model S in 2017 when full AP 2.0 software is delivered. I also have a Model 3 reserved, which could be the tipping point for the auto industry.

2. Software versus Hardware Innovation
Ironically as Tesla has been described as a computer on wheels, Tesla has just run into the same innovation bottleneck every computer manufacturer has. It’s easier to innovate in hardware then it is to have the software take advantage of it.

3. Software Quality
Deteriorating software quality is the one reason I’ll even look at other electric car brands if/when equivalent versions come out.

The Tesla software user interface has gotten progressively worse since the Version 4.1 I had four years ago. I’d swear Version 8 was designed by a 20-something summer intern, with great eyesight, sitting at a desktop who doesn’t own a Tesla and spent little time in the car.
For the first time ever I’ve gotten concerned about the non-user visible part of the software upgrades. If the version 8.0 U/I was “QA’d” I hate to think about the code we can’t see.

Summary
I love the car, but increasingly concerned that the CEOs need for new announcements is not only outstripping engineering’s ability to deliver, but may potentially impact driver safety.

 

[hsglia]

i dont want to be a downer but at the rate that you had issues, are you not worried that these will continue beyond the warrant at which time any ine of these will cost a fortune?

 

[sgblank]

i dont want to be a downer but at the rate that you had issues, are you not worried that these will continue beyond the warrant at which time any ine of these will cost a fortune?

1. Yes, that's why I bought the extended warranty
2. also why I'm planning to get a new Model S sometime this year, when the AP2 software actually works

 

[anonim1979]

i dont want to be a downer but at the rate that you had issues, are you not worried that these will continue beyond the warrant at which time any ine of these will cost a fortune?

Well most of it were 12V battery replacement and common problems like v1 handles or water in light if I read correctly.
The rest is under 8 years warranty.
Tesla also makes quite a lot goodwill fixes.

And those parts don't cost fortune anyway.

 

[byeLT4]

I appreciate your review! As a longtime Tesla fan (person) and a recent Tesla fan (auto) it is great to hear honest feedback. I am currently searching for a used MS and decided that I need some warranty and your post has solidified that decision for me.

 

[Missile Toad]

...I bought a CHAdeMO adapter as a security blanket (I’ve never used it.)

I'm considering buying a CHAdeMO for use in Texas, which is way behind California for SuperCharger density. I think of three situations I might use it:
1. When the Supercharger is too far out of the way, and I only need 50 or fewer miles to get to destination;
2. When I'm cruising around a visited town, and the hotel I'm at has inadequate charging;
3. When the Supercharger will charge too slowly, either for reason of 'Reduced Service', or I'm at the charger with 60% charge or more.
So, given you've made it 4 years without relying on it, what are the odds that you would need it in the next 12 months? I know the older CHAdeMO chargers had some issues, but aren't those resolved in the newer equipment?

 

[luckyj]

Thank you for sharing this. I am a new-ish owner - 3 months - and seeing these kinds of reports is helpful. I'm sure it helps other prospective buyers too. I think you should consider renaming your software quality to user interface - since it sounds like the quality is okay (it works mostly?), but the interface has become less intuitive/more frustrating.

 

[whitex]

I think the OP accurately summarizes typical owner experience. I've been driving a Tesla since 2013 as well, though the oldest one is less than 2 years old right now. I experienced different issues, but service took care of all of them in stellar form (ok, with the exceptions of "future features" which were never delivered, like 691hp or functional blind spot detection, the first one would require buying a new Tesla car and the latter one would require a non-EV car from one of the other car manufacturers). Overall Tesla awesome product but with early adopter issues. Today Tesla is the only game in town when it comes to practical EV's but that's going to change (practical EV IMO needs to have 200+ mile range and a reasonable fast (100KW+) charging network). Just like the OP, I look forward to competition in the EV space, as I am a little tired of driving a bleeding edge beta project - something solid that "just works" and has all the features from day 1 would be a welcome change (yes, still waiting on something as simple as auto-wipers on our 2017 Model S).

PS> On the range anxiety, just like the OP, disappeared very quickly, even though my first Tesla was the original 60. In 4 years of driving, only has 2 situations where I had to alter my plans slightly to accommodate the car's range, both were in the early days - today there are chargers which would have solved the issue. The longest trip I took was Seattle to Toronto and back, no range anxiety except once when the Tesla software freaked out briefly telling me I would not reach the destination unless I drive under the speed limit, but shortly thereafter it corrected itself (tesla software is always over optimistic, but evtripplanner.com was right-on every time).

 

[BerTX]

I'm considering buying a CHAdeMO for use in Texas, which is way behind California for SuperCharger density. I think of three situations I might use it:
1. When the Supercharger is too far out of the way, and I only need 50 or fewer miles to get to destination;
2. When I'm cruising around a visited town, and the hotel I'm at has inadequate charging;
3. When the Supercharger will charge too slowly, either for reason of 'Reduced Service', or I'm at the charger with 60% charge or more.
So, given you've made it 4 years without relying on it, what are the odds that you would need it in the next 12 months? I know the older CHAdeMO chargers had some issues, but aren't those resolved in the newer equipment?

I have a CHAdeMO adapter. I've used it exactly twice in 7 months, and both times just to try it to be sure it works. Don't be fooled by looking at a Plugshare map, thinking there are tons of available CHAdeMO sites -- those are mostly car dealerships that will not allow you to use their facilities. Most of the rest in Texas are EVgo, and they will charge you $22/hour to charge. Yes that's worthwhile if you really need it, but rediculous.

 

[Altes]

My Four Year Service History
Picked up Model S P85 from the factory 3/11/13, VIN P6xxx 51,645 miles

2013

• HPWC in my garage failed
  • ranger came and the replaced HPWC fuses
• Pano roof chewed up its rails and wouldn’t open
  • Service replaced Pano roof

2014

• Car destroyed a set of tires after 12,000 miles
  • service installed Front Lower Control Arm Washers and performed wheel alignment – service claimed this was normal wear - I bought new tires
• Water was collecting in the tail light
  • service replaced tail light assembly
• Charge port ring showing multi colors
  • service replaced charge port (it’s doing it again, but I now like the colors)
  • Service proactively replaced the 12 volt battery
• 9 months later I got another “12V Battery Needs Service Alert”
  • service replaced the 12V Battery again
• Right rear door handle wouldn’t open
  • service replaced the door handle

2015

• Left rear door handle opened randomly
  • service replaced all door handles with Gen 2 handles
  • service noticed intelligent battery sensor was corroded – they replaced it
• I got the drivetrain squeal
  • service replaced the drive train
  • service upgraded the Side Motor Mount

  • service replaced rear upper control arms with an updated revision
• Tire Pressure Monitoring Sensor alert was on all the time
  • Replaced two wheel sensors and added external antenna

2016

• Drivers window fell down and wouldn’t close
  • service repaired the window
• vanity mirror cover broke off, drivers’ side
  • service replaced when I brought it in for a 2017 repair

2017

• Came back from a 3-week vacation (with car plugged in and charging) to find a “12V Battery needs Service” warning
  • service replaced the battery but also found I needed new tires (my 2nd set)
  • When they tried to align the wheels they found that the areas for both camber control arm adjustments cams are grooved in to the subframe. They replaced the front subframe assembly.
• Got the car back from service and it made a creaking sound coming from the left front.
  • Brought it back in and they found that the left side bracket to front sway bar was loose. They tightened the bolt and torqued all the other suspension bolts

Total 4-year maintenance cost - two sets of tires.

Range anxiety
For the first few months I had my car I was consumed by range anxiety. What happens if I run out of electricity? There were few chargers around. After about 6 months my fears gradually diminished and today, except for the occasional 400-mile trip, I don’t even think about range. Here’s why:

1. I learned how far my normal trips would take and how much actual range my P85 had (~180 miles at 90% charge.)
2. I installed HPWC’s at my home and work (55 miles apart)
3. I charge every night so it’s like having a gas station in my house
4. There were 7 superchargers in the entire world when I got my car. Today, California alone has ~50.
5. I bought a CHAdeMO adapter as a security blanket (I’ve never used it.)
6. I signed up for all the 3rd party charging services as another security blanket; Blink, NRG, SemaConnect, EvGo and Chargepoint. I think I’ve used Blink and Chargepoint ten times.
7. I’ve done several Silicon Valley to San Diego trips (~500 miles) without worrying.

Battery degradation worries
Initially, I was worried about battery degradation over the lifetime of my car. In 2013 there was no real data. So how much range would I have left as the car got older?

The good news, my initial range at 100% charge was 265 miles.
Today after four years and 51,000 miles amazingly it’s 260 miles. That’s about a 2% loss.
(I keep the car charged at 90% and have range charged less than 20 times.
My bet some of the that is due to a change in the algorithm in calculating max range.

Energy Consumption
Over four years my energy consumption has decreased from ~340wh/mile to ~325 wh/mile

Wanna sell your chademo?

 

[sgblank]

I'm considering buying a CHAdeMO for use in Texas, which is way behind California for SuperCharger density. I think of three situations I might use it:
1. When the Supercharger is too far out of the way, and I only need 50 or fewer miles to get to destination;
2. When I'm cruising around a visited town, and the hotel I'm at has inadequate charging;
3. When the Supercharger will charge too slowly, either for reason of 'Reduced Service', or I'm at the charger with 60% charge or more.
So, given you've made it 4 years without relying on it, what are the odds that you would need it in the next 12 months? I know the older CHAdeMO chargers had some issues, but aren't those resolved in the newer equipment?

The original CHAdeMO adapter had software incompatibilities with some types of CHAdeMO chargers. Later versions of the adapter had upgraded firmware to fix this. So in one of my service visits I asked them to upgrade my adapter firmware.

 

[Burnt Toast]

I have a CHAdeMO adapter. I've used it exactly twice in 7 months, and both times just to try it to be sure it works. Don't be fooled by looking at a Plugshare map, thinking there are tons of available CHAdeMO sites -- those are mostly car dealerships that will not allow you to use their facilities. Most of the rest in Texas are EVgo, and they will charge you $22/hour to charge. Yes that's worthwhile if you really need it, but rediculous.

Nah it's bluediculous.

 

[BerTX]

Nah it's bluediculous.

I'll leave it mispelled.

 

[bktiger86]

My Four Year Service History
Picked up Model S P85 from the factory 3/11/13, VIN P6xxx 51,645 miles

2013

• HPWC in my garage failed
  • ranger came and the replaced HPWC fuses
• Pano roof chewed up its rails and wouldn’t open
  • Service replaced Pano roof

2014

• Car destroyed a set of tires after 12,000 miles
  • service installed Front Lower Control Arm Washers and performed wheel alignment – service claimed this was normal wear - I bought new tires
• Water was collecting in the tail light
  • service replaced tail light assembly
• Charge port ring showing multi colors
  • service replaced charge port (it’s doing it again, but I now like the colors)
  • Service proactively replaced the 12 volt battery
• 9 months later I got another “12V Battery Needs Service Alert”
  • service replaced the 12V Battery again
• Right rear door handle wouldn’t open
  • service replaced the door handle

2015

• Left rear door handle opened randomly
  • service replaced all door handles with Gen 2 handles
  • service noticed intelligent battery sensor was corroded – they replaced it
• I got the drivetrain squeal
  • service replaced the drive train
  • service upgraded the Side Motor Mount

  • service replaced rear upper control arms with an updated revision
• Tire Pressure Monitoring Sensor alert was on all the time
  • Replaced two wheel sensors and added external antenna

2016

• Drivers window fell down and wouldn’t close
  • service repaired the window
• vanity mirror cover broke off, drivers’ side
  • service replaced when I brought it in for a 2017 repair

2017

• Came back from a 3-week vacation (with car plugged in and charging) to find a “12V Battery needs Service” warning
  • service replaced the battery but also found I needed new tires (my 2nd set)
  • When they tried to align the wheels they found that the areas for both camber control arm adjustments cams are grooved in to the subframe. They replaced the front subframe assembly.
• Got the car back from service and it made a creaking sound coming from the left front.
  • Brought it back in and they found that the left side bracket to front sway bar was loose. They tightened the bolt and torqued all the other suspension bolts

Total 4-year maintenance cost - two sets of tires.

Range anxiety
For the first few months I had my car I was consumed by range anxiety. What happens if I run out of electricity? There were few chargers around. After about 6 months my fears gradually diminished and today, except for the occasional 400-mile trip, I don’t even think about range. Here’s why:

1. I learned how far my normal trips would take and how much actual range my P85 had (~180 miles at 90% charge.)
2. I installed HPWC’s at my home and work (55 miles apart)
3. I charge every night so it’s like having a gas station in my house
4. There were 7 superchargers in the entire world when I got my car. Today, California alone has ~50.
5. I bought a CHAdeMO adapter as a security blanket (I’ve never used it.)
6. I signed up for all the 3rd party charging services as another security blanket; Blink, NRG, SemaConnect, EvGo and Chargepoint. I think I’ve used Blink and Chargepoint ten times.
7. I’ve done several Silicon Valley to San Diego trips (~500 miles) without worrying.

Battery degradation worries
Initially, I was worried about battery degradation over the lifetime of my car. In 2013 there was no real data. So how much range would I have left as the car got older?

The good news, my initial range at 100% charge was 265 miles.
Today after four years and 51,000 miles amazingly it’s 260 miles. That’s about a 2% loss.
(I keep the car charged at 90% and have range charged less than 20 times.
My bet some of the that is due to a change in the algorithm in calculating max range.

Energy Consumption
Over four years my energy consumption has decreased from ~340wh/mile to ~325 wh/mile

Wow that is actually a a very detailed timeline. Thanks for that. I always question the QC of Tesla. Good thing they do have a pretty proactive service centers, but I am worried that once the Model 3 gets released, will there be room for the current X and S.

 

[Az_Rael]

So, given you've made it 4 years without relying on it, what are the odds that you would need it in the next 12 months? I know the older CHAdeMO chargers had some issues, but aren't those resolved in the newer equipment?

My odds were bad compared to the OPs. I needed my Chademo in the 1st month I owned the car to make it home once. Actually, I could have used it on delivery day when I ran my car down to 4 miles to add a little buffer, but I didn't bring it with me to pick up the car, sadly. (I bought the Chademo used before my car arrived- worth every penny)

 

[NeverFollow]

Over four years my energy consumption has decreased from ~340wh/mile to ~325 wh/mile

Decreased by about 5%. What could be the cause?
- Did you get better rolling resistant tires
- Or did you lighten you lead foot?

 

[mrjedistud]

Very well done. Now I have to go and document my car's history.

 

[Wuggado?]

A few thoughts after four years:
1. Electric Cars are the future
I’m never going back to an internal combustion engine. I have no doubt in another decade or two, 25-50% of cars will be electric. The only question is when and whose brand. I’m looking forward to my next Model S in 2017 when full AP 2.0 software is delivered. I also have a Model 3 reserved, which could be the tipping point for the auto industry.

2. Software versus Hardware Innovation
Ironically as Tesla has been described as a computer on wheels, Tesla has just run into the same innovation bottleneck every computer manufacturer has. It’s easier to innovate in hardware then it is to have the software take advantage of it.

3. Software Quality
Deteriorating software quality is the one reason I’ll even look at other electric car brands if/when equivalent versions come out.

The Tesla software user interface has gotten progressively worse since the Version 4.1 I had four years ago. I’d swear Version 8 was designed by a 20-something summer intern, with great eyesight, sitting at a desktop who doesn’t own a Tesla and spent little time in the car.
For the first time ever I’ve gotten concerned about the non-user visible part of the software upgrades. If the version 8.0 U/I was “QA’d” I hate to think about the code we can’t see.

Summary
I love the car, but increasingly concerned that the CEOs need for new announcements is not only outstripping engineering’s ability to deliver, but may potentially impact driver safety.

I agree with your concerns and will add two more:
- How in the world will California-based Tesla owners get service after the Model 3 gets released en masse when they are having trouble getting service in a timely fashion now in some places?
- How in the world will Tesla owners get timely access to Superchargers on road trips in highly populated California areas after the Model 3 gets released en masse when they are having trouble getting access now in some places (Dublin and Mountain View to name two)?

I know these are not fresh concerns, but they do have me wondering whether I should sell my MS prior to release of the M3. I love driving the car, but it has to be serviceable in a timely fashion or it's usefulness diminishes.