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400v AC Charging

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by randvegeta, Jan 8, 2017.

  1. randvegeta

    randvegeta Member

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    Would it not technically be possible to get more power from a 400v AC supply?

    Rather than just 240v, with a 3-phase outlet, you could use 2 live/hot terminals to get 400v.

    I charge at 32 amps on 240v so thats about 7kw. But 400v could yield 12.8kw. Or do you double the amperage because both phases support 32a? In which case that could be 25.6kw?

    I know the UMC is designed for 110 - 240 but wudnt it technically be possible with litte change to existing equipment?
     
  2. DarkMatter

    DarkMatter Member

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    It's already been done:

    EVlink Fast Charge Solution | Schneider Electric

    That's what CHAdeMO chargers typically run off in the US. Sit down before you pay for an install though as they will probably be $25k+ once installed.

    The change to the design of the existing equipment is not trivial.
     
  3. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

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    Someone from Europe should chime in. The OP is talking about European spec UMC.
     
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  4. DarkMatter

    DarkMatter Member

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    Oh! I completely missed that. Yeah. That's different. Though wouldn't you be using the Type 2 - Type 2 cable for that? No UMC involved from the EVSE to the car.

    Very neat. The Model S has a 400V capable charger there. There's EVSE like this: EVR3 - Type 2 - max 22 kW [Portable charging station] - e-Station Store

    Still not sure I would trust trying to modify the UMC.
     
  5. randvegeta

    randvegeta Member

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    Actually my Model S is a US import. There is no Tesla presence in Lithuania and all Teslas here appear to be from the US as the unofficial garages here exclusively deal in US Teslas.

    Besides, EU spec cars already support 3-phase charging, allowing for 22kw charging from the same outlet I'm using. Or 22kw from a Type 2 public charger. As mine is a US spec vehicle, only single phase is supported, and from a standard 32amp outlet, the max I can get is around 7kw.

    There are some Chademo chargers near where I live, but actually 7kw is usually enough for me so I rarely need to use them.

    Since Type 2 / Mennekes charges are also 3-phase, I was thinking it would be great if I could squeeze more power out of them. Type 2 chargers are pretty common, and if I could access 22kw (105km/h) of charging power, that would be pretty decent. But with only a single phase available, I'm limited to, AT MOST 35km/h. Better than nothing if I get stuck in the middle of no-where, but if I could up the charge to 12.8kw (64km/h), it would be a little more useful.

    Unless there is some sort of 3-phase to single phase converter... 3-phase input, with a high power single phase output?
     
  6. DarkMatter

    DarkMatter Member

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    There are 1-phase to 3-phase converters, so the other way around exists even if only as a rotary converter. To handle 22 kW they would be quite large.
     
  7. randvegeta

    randvegeta Member

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    Where do you see that Model S supports 400v? 400v AC?

    Would be interesting to know if the UMC could technically be possible with the J1772 adapter. Or maybe the UMC can support it to since the NEMA 14-50 adapter is supposed to use '2 phase/split phase' any way.
     
  8. widodh

    widodh Model S 85kWh

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    Model S doesn't charge on 400V, it will charge on 3x 230V.

    A 400V 16A circuit is 3-phases with a Neutral. L1, L2, L3 and N.

    Between any L there is 400V and between L and N there is 230V.

    You can calculate the maximum power: 400V * 16A * sqr(3) = 11.040W

    Same would be if you did: 230V * 16A * 3 = 11.040W

    A higher voltage MIGHT be slightly more efficient due to less loss, but you won't get more power out of the same circuit.
     
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  9. DarkMatter

    DarkMatter Member

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    That makes sense. That way they can use the same 230 volt line to neutral design, which lets them save doing a redesign on the charger. So it seems likely your American version car will be stuck at the maximum of whatever you can take on one phase. The site lists the Model S as compatible with 400 volt service, but knowing that is 3-phase means you'll need the 3 phase charger and input to make it work.
     
  10. pers1

    pers1 Member

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    IMG_0297.jpg Made an excel sheet here is just some of it ref. kW/h
     
  11. Boatguy

    Boatguy Member

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    I doubt the charger will accept 400VAC, but even if it did, I don't think there is any reason to think it would increase the charge rate as the charger itself has a power rating (i.e., about 7.6kW) which is not going to be increased by changing the voltage.

    I have two EVs and as the voltage fluctuates at my home (+- 6VAC), they just draw more or less current, but always the same max power when at max charge.
     
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  12. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    With a US Spec car and no power more than 32 amps, you're stuck with ~7kW. The on-board charger can only take up to 277VAC, so pulling two live wires out of the Euro 3-phase and trying to charge at 400VAC is a VERY BAD IDEA. The best you can do is get a boost transformer and get the voltage closer to 270VAC, but you will be pulling more current on the grid side of the boost transformer, so plan accordingly.
     
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