4680 Battery Cell Performance

[evphile]

Obviously, the 4680 battery cells being delivered in some Model Y’s are brand-spanking new, but does anyone know how they are performing?

- Is the promised superior performance (battery density, range, etc.) being delivered?
- Is TESLA making Model Y’s that get the
same or better range with fewer kWh???

- Could the 4680 battery architecture actually deliver 1,000,000mi battery life/performance?

- Do the 4680 promote/support rapid charging any better than the 2170 battery cells?

- Are the 4680 batteries safer than the 2170’s? Has anyone heard about any fires or other safety related incidents with any Model Y’s with 4680’s?

- How does the structural battery pack hold up in a car crash? Have we seen any Model Y’s with 4680’s in any car crashes yet? Is there any NHTSA “test dummy” crash video stock footage of a Model Y with 4680’s being crash tested?

 

[ucmndd]

It’s been like 6 weeks. There are no answers to any of your questions yet.

 

[bruce4000]

sandy Munro on you tube has a 4680 MY and starting to tear down. Hopefully next weeks installment will remove the battery cover and answer some cell questions!

 

[doc5339]

Maybe we will see some data points on these questions in the not too distant future anyway:

- Is the promised superior performance (battery density, range, etc.) being delivered?
- Is TESLA making Model Y’s that get the
same or better range with fewer kWh???

- Do the 4680 promote/support rapid charging any better than the 2170 battery cells?

 

[sleepydoc]

Obviously, the 4680 battery cells being delivered in some Model Y’s are brand-spanking new, but does anyone know how they are performing?

- Is the promised superior performance (battery density, range, etc.) being delivered?
- Is TESLA making Model Y’s that get the
same or better range with fewer kWh???

- Could the 4680 battery architecture actually deliver 1,000,000mi battery life/performance?

- Do the 4680 promote/support rapid charging any better than the 2170 battery cells?

- Are the 4680 batteries safer than the 2170’s? Has anyone heard about any fires or other safety related incidents with any Model Y’s with 4680’s?

- How does the structural battery pack hold up in a car crash? Have we seen any Model Y’s with 4680’s in any car crashes yet? Is there any NHTSA “test dummy” crash video stock footage of a Model Y with 4680’s being crash tested?

@ucmndd is right. At this point it’s too early and we have no data.

Many of your questions depend on the implementation. The 4680 is supposedly a more efficient design with less internal resistance = less heating for a given current, but they also made the battery bigger, meaning a lower surface area/volume ratio and less efficient cooling. How those balance each other is the big question.

As far as 1M mile life goes, that also depends more on the battery pack, car design and usage as much as it does on the battery. If you have a bigger pack with more individual cells you have lower usage of any individual cell per mile and a longer life. Batteries also degrade with time and dependent on storage charge.

 

[evphile]

Thanks for the reply! Very helpful insights.

 

[sleepydoc]

I just saw this:

Texas-made Tesla Model Y with 4680 battery charges 0-97% in under 1 hour

A Texas-made Tesla Model Y with 4680 battery cells has been able to complete a charging session from 0% to 97% in 52 minutes.

www.teslarati.com

They hint at this in the article but I can think of several potential explanations-
first, the battery design is more efficient with lower internal resistance allowing faster charging without overheating.
Another is that The 4680 battery packs are actually larger than the specified 70 kWh so they're essentially using the 'middle' of the battery capacity where charging is most efficient (i.e. it's actually an 84kWh battery but Tesla is saying 10% is 'empty' and 90% is 'full')

There could be other explanations, to, but it's still impressive charging speed.

 

[Ctuna]

The reviews I have seen the 4680 gen 1 are not impressive.
2170 still has better energy density by a little. Charge rate
is about the same. Very little weight saving even with Cast Front
and Rear. There are a few Ytube reviews that verify this and so
do the major Ytube Tesla bloggers.
No battery repair by module since there are no modules .
See Sandy Munro Live.

 

[purduevol]

Well, I have a one-month-old MYSR (2,000 miles) with 4680 battery packs, and received the dreaded 'maximum charge level and range may be reduced' error message yesterday. I have an appointment with the SC tomorrow where they will replace the HV battery.

I assume the fact the battery can't be repaired by module is actually working in my favor here as I am guaranteed all new battery cells, no?

 

[jsight]

Well, I have a one-month-old MYSR (2,000 miles) with 4680 battery packs, and received the dreaded 'maximum charge level and range may be reduced' error message yesterday. I have an appointment with the SC tomorrow where they will replace the HV battery.

I assume the fact the battery can't be repaired by module is actually working in my favor here as I am guaranteed all new battery cells, no?

I'm not sure that I've ever seen Tesla replace just a module. More than likely it will be a new pack.

 

[gaswalla]

no Tesla battery can be repaired per module. There are some third party hacks who tried it and failed.

 

[tangible1]

Well, I have a one-month-old MYSR (2,000 miles) with 4680 battery packs, and received the dreaded 'maximum charge level and range may be reduced' error message yesterday. I have an appointment with the SC tomorrow where they will replace the HV battery.

I assume the fact the battery can't be repaired by module is actually working in my favor here as I am guaranteed all new battery cells, no?

No 4680 battery module repairs are planned or possible. Witness Munro's YT videos on the structural battery pack teardown.
Battery packs will be replaced, and the failed ones recycled thru Tesla's former CTO JB Straubel and his Redwood Materials recycling company in Nevada.

The good news for you here is you're under full warranty, and likely get a 2nd gen 4680 pack.

 

[purduevol]

I'm not sure that I've ever seen Tesla replace just a module. More than likely it will be a new pack.

Interesting. The SC has informed me it will be a 'HV battery with new batteries and a refurbished pack'. After I pushed they went on to say 'all HV packs are re-built with new cells, so no worries.'

 

[GreenCoffee]

Interesting. The SC has informed me it will be a 'HV battery with new batteries and a refurbished pack'. After I pushed they went on to say 'all HV packs are re-built with new cells, so no worries.'

Will be interesting to see what the repair receipt lists when complete.

 

[tangible1]

Interesting. The SC has informed me it will be a 'HV battery with new batteries and a refurbished pack'. After I pushed they went on to say 'all HV packs are re-built with new cells, so no worries.'

Not for 4680 structural packs they're not. For 2170 standard packs, sure. But not 4680 that your MY-AWD has in it.
The Service Center is just repeating dogma for your consumption.

 

[purduevol]

Not for 4680 structural packs they're not. For 2170 standard packs, sure. But not 4680 that your MY-AWD has in it.
The Service Center is just repeating dogma for your consumption.

The more I read the more it seems this is the case - for most interactions with the SC

 

[jsight]

Interesting. The SC has informed me it will be a 'HV battery with new batteries and a refurbished pack'. After I pushed they went on to say 'all HV packs are re-built with new cells, so no worries.'

Not all HV pack failures are cell failures. Its completely possible that you'd get a refurbished pack with some of the non-battery components replaced. I doubt its guaranteed to be new cells, but if they are like other manufacturers, the odds are higher in the early days of production than later on.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

No 4680 battery module repairs are planned or possible. Witness Munro's YT videos on the structural battery pack teardown.
Battery packs will be replaced, and the failed ones recycled thru Tesla's former CTO JB Straubel and his Redwood Materials recycling company in Nevada.

The good news for you here is you're under full warranty, and likely get a 2nd gen 4680 pack.

When did 2nd gen packs start production?

 

[tangible1]

When did 2nd gen packs start production?

Been in process for a while now

Tesla VP Baglino:
On the cell design, we’re in production with not only the first generation tabless cell we unveiled on Battery Day but a second more manufacturable version in Texas today.

Tesla gives update on its game-changing 4680 battery cell

Tesla has released a very detailed update on its 4680 battery cell program, which is expected to be critical for...

electrek.co

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Been in process for a while now

Tesla VP Baglino:
On the cell design, we’re in production with not only the first generation tabless cell we unveiled on Battery Day but a second more manufacturable version in Texas today.

Tesla gives update on its game-changing 4680 battery cell

Tesla has released a very detailed update on its 4680 battery cell program, which is expected to be critical for...

electrek.co

Cool. My delivery window is April 30-May 9