Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

5 battery install Lake of the Pines

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
I agree with Wayne... if you had multiple generation sources then you could go off grid with a bit more confidence since you'd have the level of redundancy necessary to cover the Winter months, periods of cloudcover, and any local hardware failures (like imagine one of your Solaredge inverters goes offline).

I think the PG&E NBC's are a necessary evil for your long-term peace of mind. In my case, I've essentially been "off grid" for the last 3 weeks since I have sent nothing to PG&E and received nothing from PG&E. PG&E is basically a backup energy provider for days like today where it's about to rain. Seems like a reasonable gambit to pay PG&E $35 a month (or whatever) to be your backup so you don't have to put a wind turbine and gas generator into your home's microgrid.
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: pilotSteve
Not sure it is worth it, there is a huge jump in difficulty and required capacity for corner cases in going from 98% off grid to 100% off grid.

Cheers, Wayne
Guess I should be more clear. My goal is not 100, but the 98% as you say. I maybe pretty close with the 5 batteries. I may even be close on the solar. But to maximize the batteries, going to at least get an estimate on putting on maybe another 5K of solar. :)

Now, if I could just charge the batteries from grid in winter, at least I could charge at cheap and use batteries when grid is expensive. Then I guess I would flip to the advance mode.
 
Interesting. I guess the next step is to get a county final approval.

My installer has been great about filing paperwork. Did anyone ever come out and do an inspection from PGE or SGIP?
So you had to change the rate plan? Why if no one did? And what form or person said you had to change before they would authorize incentive?
Details :(
SGIP is administered by PG&E for PG&E customers. The PG&E SGIP department sent out a contractor to inspect the system. He took pictures of the system and my well (which is how qualified for the SGIP incentive).
The rate plan is a condition of the residential PG&E SGIP incentive:
If you have medical baseline you can be on TOU-C. Everything else is an EV rate.
 
The google sunroof tools is so cool.
sun.JPG


Since I believe it is recommended to have like 4kw per battery, I only have 15kw solar today. So I have one south facing garage, which this is great,
and west facing, okay. But the house south facing say are great which is where I want to add more panels to try and get to 20kw solar.
 
I currently have my PW's in advanced peak from like 3pm to 1am. I am amazed, with some sun, how much I am totally off the grid. And the sw seems to be learning since I was off the grid most of the off peak times also. Now, if I can add a little more solar, ... :)
 
Man is playing with my new setup taking a lot of time, but boy, and I learning a lot!!!!!!

I can pretty much with 2 batteries on my house and some sun with the number of panels of solar, (which has NO heating), I could run totally off grid.
For now the game plan is to not do this since I want to send all the solar back to PGE when it is peak, and then use solar to recharge battery on off peak.

For the 3 batteries on my heating, if I had lots of sun, I would sneak by. But in winter, just not going to cut it. So for now, just trying to see if I can get
anymore solar panels. And try to hear back from Tesla on my question on grid charging, which now did not really need until next winter.

Working with SolarEdge Tech support has been nothing but amazing!!!!! (some are better than others, but thats a different story) The lastest person was able to tell me that because I had the metering card on in the unit, it took out all my past data. When I told him I could care less about all the other fields, he turned off metering on the inverter and everything came back. Past data, and total for the two inverters. So cool!

I have had one unit go into a green flash mode. This last person saw some line error message so he said he tweaked something. If it comes back, says I might have to deal with line quality. But to tweak something that might fix it, so cool.

Was able on my old inverter to get the FW updated to the latest. It turns out it is much better to not have the touch screen. :)

Still need to change the communications from zigbee to ethernet, but will see if the installer can do since he is here friday.

This stuff is so much fun!!
 
Could you summarize your previous use, the solar/battery setup (I know pictures speak a thousand words, but I don't fully understand the language), and how the decision was made for 5 PWs? Is your utility service 200 amps?

I use an large amount of electricity (3383 kwh last October, electrician says (not sure if meant to be truthful, I later fired him) I have a 600 amp feed although my meter is 400 amps) and have had an installer suggest ~ 17 kW solar + 6 batteries will do 80% of my use. But those numbers were based upon previous owner's use, not mine .....
 
Could you summarize your previous use, the solar/battery setup (I know pictures speak a thousand words, but I don't fully understand the language), and how the decision was made for 5 PWs? Is your utility service 200 amps?

I use an large amount of electricity (3383 kwh last October, electrician says (not sure if meant to be truthful, I later fired him) I have a 600 amp feed although my meter is 400 amps) and have had an installer suggest ~ 17 kW solar + 6 batteries will do 80% of my use. But those numbers were based upon previous owner's use, not mine .....
There is no easy answer to your question but here are some thoughts.

I have a 400 amp service with 2 200 amp subpanels. One sub is just the house. The other sub has all my heating/cooling which is all mini split heat pumps. (this is important compared to if one heats from something else)

Interesting you say you have a 600 amp service, but only a 400 amp panel. I would assume might as well assume you only have a 400 amp service unless you are changing your main panel?

This whole thing about use. IMO, this is far from the first questions one needs to ask. (As an engineer, I love to do all the what if questions)

First thing I would have folks think about is how much money do they have, want to spend, and for what goal. IMO, there is NO ROI that is worth putting on solar and batteries. Again, not the way I looked at it!!

Then one has to ask how long one is going to stay in the house.

If one has tons of money and into the green stuff, great, spend the money, drive the EV, but again, do not think about ROI.

Another question is what is ones tax situation. There is the ITC of 26%, but only if want has taxes to pay.

Another question is does ones power have TOU rates? What are ones electric rates.

How often and for how long and when does ones power go out.

What percentage of ones home is electric. Makes a huge difference on things to think about. What climate does one live in? Cold, hot, snowy, etc.
What sun does the location get? Angle? Shading? Etc.

Would a generator be a better cost flexibility option?

Once one has the answers to the above questions, then one can decide what next steps if any towards solar and or batteries make sense.
From a pure dollars where I am in Calif, I believe having lots of solar is the best first step. Simple to do and the best balanced cost structure here under TOU-c.
Now, with batteries, it looks like if forces one here onto TOU EV2-a which with peak being like 3 times non peak, totally means one has to look at when power is used. In some ways a pain in the butt.

Another thought on batteries that I have found it is not how many you have, but how quickly can they be recharged. I am dealing with this question now.
The recommendation is At least 4kw per PW, and depending on how effective the solar is, and when you need the power, this maybe way to low from what I have seen.

So, as you can see, IMO, there are tons of important questions one really needs to answer before ones starts spending money, unless money is not an issue.
 
I continue to learn how my system is operating, but some current thoughts.

If one has a fixed amount of money, what is the best split spending between solar panels and batteries.

There is the logical data, and then there is the emotional data like saying how many cool batteries does one have.

So, I have 5 batteries, and I ask myself, is it too many, just right, or not enough. Since I can see my house load on one GW, and my heating/cooling on another GW, it makes things easier to see. And then if one has gas heating vs electric, ......

Most seems to want batteries for a power outage. So, how long does one assume power is out? While out, what expectations does one have has to what thing one can run? The longer one wants to run more things, the more cost for batteries one would have to consider spending.

But the most interesting thing I am seeing is does one have enough solar to recharge whatever quantity of batteries one has. If one cannot recharge, they are not worth much. I believe Tesla recommends at least 4KW per battery. From what I am seeing, seems like a great start. But this is not the panel rating, this would be the output actual. In my case, I have shading from neighbors trees, so I do not get close to my panel ratings. So, am trying to look at could I fit anymore panels on my roof, rather than more batteries, if I had an option. I get money back from solar, more batteries at this point I do not get anything.

If one has electric heat, does one try to have enough panels to recharge and get off grid a lot? But then this may mean way too much extra power in the summer, assuming AC takes less than heat.

I also think about that TOU plan one is on. If flat peak vs non peak, or no TOU, one may take one approach. But if one is on a TOU plan where peak is much higher than non peak, more batteries become more attractive.

So far I pretty much have been able to go off grid starting at 3pm. And depending how much I use, I can continue off grid well into the next day, like I am still off grid at 9am as I write. So in theory, with enough solar, and not going to crazy on use, I may be able to get close to being off grid most of the day and all night. Shall be fun to watch, and then see how it impacts my PGE bill.
 
I'm not on medical baseline or nor do I own an EV. I'm on TOU-B (under NEM-MT). I think it's about grandfathering and what you brought to the install.
I did PV install in July 2019 (moved me from Tiered to TOU-B) and then PW install in Dec 2019 (SGIP application and NEM-MT). YMMV
In your case it appears this is because you are under NEM-MT and not NEM-PS for paired storage.
 
If one has a fixed amount of money, what is the best split spending between solar panels and batteries
...
Interesting, no force EV2-a on the batteries?

The 4 kW solar to 1 Powerwall rule of thumb is probably just a a generic rule to take into account all climates and situations. I think every buyer has to assess their unique home/needs and make a determination that is best suited for what they're trying to accomplish.

This is why buying from Tesla Energy directly is kind of annoying. They try to force every project down to a least-common-denominator cookie cutter approach. While this may be great for a home in the middle of the bell curve, it sucks if the homeowner has annoying limitations or special considerations.

For example, my home is limited to 7.9 kWp of solar. I simply couldn't find any installer that would put more panels on the one roof that is a solar candidate. But, I need 3 Powerwalls to actually start these bastard Lennox air conditioners. So the 4:1 ratio goes out the window for me.

PS, I have 3x Powerwalls, no EV, and I am applying for NEM2-MT with TOU-C (MIL lives with us and has a CPAP/HHD).