500 + Mile Range Debate

[Kee_Chain]

Hello everyone, I hope you are doing well,

After the cancellation of the 500+ range Model S Plaid+, I have been seeing a big debate of Teslas or EVs in general regarding 500 miles worth of range on Twitter. The main argument I am seeing is that most people will want to stop as 500 miles of driving in one day is a lot. During that stop, they will be able to supercharge, eat, etc... However, the other argument that I have been reading is having the convenience of 500 miles of range as an option whether used or not.

My take, as we all know 500 miles of range is only achieved through the most ideal conditions. My 315ish MY does not give me that range when I drive in the midwest. Hills, high-speed interstates (60-80 mph), wind, etc lower my range. In my case, living in the midwest and traveling to southeastern states would benefit me when traveling. For example, in ideal conditions, if I was to travel from Indianapolis, IN to Atlanta, GA, I would need to stop about 3/4 times give or take. A 500 mile version of the MY, maybe twice at a 250 KW SC. When I do make these trips, I stick to my ICE becuase I can get there quicker then my Tesla. I would like to take the MY but the extra time isn't worth it for me as I do not stop unless for gas. To conclude, my take is just having that convenience factors of extra range, of course everyone has a different use case compared to me.

Any thoughts, TMC?

 

[BQst]

Agree with you. We also take our ICE on certain longer trips because of how much it cuts the total travel time. A 500+ mile range Tesla would eliminate that.

Ben

 

[Darthamerica]

Five hundred miles isn't "needed." I'm currently on a ~6000 Mile road trip from Cali to MS and back in a 2015 MS P90D with over 100k miles on the original battery. My R Max is currently ~233 to 235 miles at complete SoC.

I had zero issues going the 2000 miles from CA to MS. The closest Supercharger is ~20 miles away in a town called Hattiesburg. I'm able to drive about 3 to 5 days before having to charge. Last night I spontaneously visited Biloxi, MS, 70 miles away, on 50% SoC. I used the Biloxi MS Supercharger and returned to Hattiesburg. Again no issue. In two weeks, I'll leave Hattiesburg for Atlanta for a day and then head back to Los Angeles, at which point I'll have driven about 6,000 miles in my ancient Model S.

I wrote all of that to say Tesla solved the range problem a decade ago. I'd say they solved road tripping with Supercharger density. However, range anxiety is still genuine for all EVs regardless of range. If you have an L2 home charger, then most of the time, you're good to go. But if you don't, or if you're away from home like I am as I write this, you're always thinking about when you need to make the trip to the charger. That's range anxiety. Five hundred miles hold range anxiety off a bit longer than a car with 350-390 miles of "range." It's a lot longer than mine on my 230ish mile range vehicle.
Five hundred miles of range is a brute force way of dealing with range anxiety when the real problem is charger density. And think about the cost and complexity adders of the new battery to enable this range. Tesla offsets this by charging YOU more money.

It would probably have been possible to increase my average speed during this road trip up significantly from 50mph because I could see half the number of charging stops from ~20 to ~10 with a 500-mile battery!

 

[Kee_Chain]

Five hundred miles isn't "needed." I'm currently on a ~6000 Mile road trip from Cali to MS and back in a 2015 MS P90D with over 100k miles on the original battery. My R Max is currently ~233 to 235 miles at complete SoC.

I had zero issues going the 2000 miles from CA to MS. The closest Supercharger is ~20 miles away in a town called Hattiesburg. I'm able to drive about 3 to 5 days before having to charge. Last night I spontaneously visited Biloxi, MS, 70 miles away, on 50% SoC. I used the Biloxi MS Supercharger and returned to Hattiesburg. Again no issue. In two weeks, I'll leave Hattiesburg for Atlanta for a day and then head back to Los Angeles, at which point I'll have driven about 6,000 miles in my ancient Model S.

I wrote all of that to say Tesla solved the range problem a decade ago. I'd say they solved road tripping with Supercharger density. However, range anxiety is still genuine for all EVs regardless of range. If you have an L2 home charger, then most of the time, you're good to go. But if you don't, or if you're away from home like I am as I write this, you're always thinking about when you need to make the trip to the charger. That's range anxiety. Five hundred miles hold range anxiety off a bit longer than a car with 350-390 miles of "range." It's a lot longer than mine on my 230ish mile range vehicle.
Five hundred miles of range is a brute force way of dealing with range anxiety when the real problem is charger density. And think about the cost and complexity adders of the new battery to enable this range. Tesla offsets this by charging YOU more money.

It would probably have been possible to increase my average speed during this road trip up significantly from 50mph because I could see half the number of charging stops from ~20 to ~10 with a 500-mile battery!

I wish I had the same patience as you! For my daily use case, even a 400 rated mile MY would be perfect. With around 95% battery, I still cut it short making it back home...

 

[Darthamerica]

I wish I had the same patience as you! For my daily use case, even a 400 rated mile MY would be perfect. With around 95% battery, I still cut it short making it back home...

You’re using 400 miles of rated range per day?

 

[Big Dog]

IMO, the 500 mile range is a HUGE signal to the EV-reluctants. Do most "need" it?; definitely not. OTOH, comes in handy for towing.

Are long trips faster in an ICE? Can be, if you only stop for gas. Personally, I make a 400 mile trip every few months, with one stop of ~35 minutes for meal and bathroom. Works out great for us at this distance. But if I had to drive 1000 miles one way, a 35 minute stop every few hours would PIA.

 

[Kee_Chain]

You’re using 400 miles of rated range per day?

Not everyday, my businesses are are far apart, about 100 miles apart. Sometimes I have to make trips back and forth in one day, then back to my house, another 50 miles. Even with charging at my businesses, so many factors affect my ability to do my driving all in one go. That would be a convenience I would love to see. There have been causes where the car itself (range) has been the reason why I might not even be able to go to my other business location, and have enough range to drive back home. This sometimes results in me taking an ICE car. I do have SC on the routes I take but it would be more convenient for me to be able to drive all in one go.

 

[Kee_Chain]

IMO, the 500 mile range is a HUGE signal to the EV-reluctants. Do most "need" it?; definitely not. OTOH, comes in handy for towing.

Are long trips faster in an ICE? Can be, if you only stop for gas. Personally, I make a 400 mile trip every few months, with one stop of ~35 minutes for meal and bathroom. Works out great for us at this distance. But if I had to drive 1000 miles one way, a 35 minute stop every few hours would PIA.

I definitely will start to take my MY, the only road trip I have taken with the MY, I had a bad experience with charging at the location. Unfortunately, I did not have any quality gauged extension cords, and had to drive 20 minutes to the SC basically every other day... I really hope future homes, hotels, etc, start to install chargers or at least outlets outside... Also, for FREE!!!

 

[RichAZ/CapeCod]

I don't "need" a 500 mile range EV. But I want one. I want to charge to 300 miles range in fifteen minutes at a SC and can do that with a battery with a 500 mile range. Would make distance travel a breeze!!

Rich

 

[stromb0li]

Living in North Dakota, I was pretty disappointed to hear 400mi+ "is not needed" statement. I greatly disagree as I lose about 40% of my pack in the winter, and many of the speed limits are upper 70s and low 80s (all of SD for example, is 80 mph on interstate). Put both together + wind (midwest is always windy), you are realistically down to half of what your advertised range is.

Yes, you can hit up the superchargers, but you are going to be there for a long time as you'll have to get really close to fully charging the pack. In addition, if you have family that lives out in the rhubarb, it's going to be anxious ride. I'd much rather have the higher pack (one reason why the cybertruck 600mi pack is appealing) as I can focus on comfortably making it to my destination and charge at my destination (home, hotel, etc.) rather than sit at a supercharger.

One small jab -- if 400mi of range is "good enough", then why isn't any of Tesla Mobile Service allowed to have Tesla's in the midwest?

 

[Wannabeskibum]

In many cases west of Illinois and east of California range is the issue more than charger density. Many of us are not calling for all EVs to have 500+ miles of range just an option for some. Maybe my niche use case means that as a two car family we have an ICE for the next decade, but honestly that makes me feel a bit dirty.

My local ski hill is a short 942 miles away. Nebraska and especially Wyoming in the winter are not a great for EV range. I-80 speed limits are 75 and 80 mph, wind is constant in the winter, distance between towns is huge, it is very cold, Interstate closings are common, ski box on top etc..

I did a test run in our Model 3 this April when I went without the family, so no ski box. Once you finish your first leg of the trip you need to stop at basically every supercharger. The thought of keeping the wife and kids at the Laramie, WY Supercharger in Jan or Feb for any amount of time is nobody's idea of a good time.

I have hopes that the Cybertruck will eventually get well into the 600 mile range and that should give it about 400 miles at 75 mph on the interstate. Taking into account that after the first SC stop you will only have about 70% of battery capacity and the drop for wind and cold you still can get some flexibility in the drive to skip poor superchargers or take detours.

The Cybertruck is more vehicle than I need for most days but it will also help with camping. Cybertruck also solves the ski box problem.

When traveling through the Upper Midwest in the winter it is almost always the destination and not the journey.

 

[J0seph89]

I'll be taking my first trip in the Model 3 in a couple months where I'll be driving 800 miles one way. I checked ABRP and it estimates that I will need to charge for approximately an hour and a half~ total, so not too bad in my opinion. Three hours round trip to charge is nothing to sneeze at either, but I love my Model 3 so much it's a worthwhile sacrifice. More range would definitely be nice, however, and it did pain me to hear Elon say that as well.

 

[nwdiver]

Agree with you. We also take our ICE on certain longer trips because of how much it cuts the total travel time. A 500+ mile range Tesla would eliminate that.

Ben

.... but if you can get ~180 miles of range in ~15 minutes at a supercharger.... is it really worth even ~$5k for more batteries? I realize that for some people $5k is pocket change but I would bet that most people would take the 15 minute break once in a while over dropping ~$5k.

 

[Brando]

55mph - is no one patient enough to drive 55 ??
My 1989 Saab still gets 23-25 city and upto 36 on highway @ 55. What range do you get at 55 ?? anyone?
I suppose most don't care about saving the few pennies I save on gas - but then I'm poorer than most, I guess.

IS 55 reasonable/safe on today's Interstates ?? [I used to drive a lot 10-12 hours days in 13 Western States stopping at lumber yards & contractors - no more.

 

[dipper]

I done 2100+ miles each way (4200 miles total) last year on my s90D. Rated 286 miles, but hardly even get that close from usage.

On average, I charge to about 60-70% each charge for 35-40 minutes. That really last about 120 miles, as I want 10%-ish just in case. Some cases, I end up charging 90 miles between charges, as I will not make to next charger unless I charge more at slower speed. And then during the day, I have to share charging cabinet, making it even slower. Some places restrict to slow charging with or without sharing. Most places outside CA still have old setup.

I seemed to be talking to same people on the road doing charger hunting.

I actually spent a lot of time charging. I did the trip alone. No way will I be okay doing that trip with wife and small kids. One stop is one thing, that trip would have been a family nightmare.

So will a 500 miles range even benefit that trip? Hell yeah. The charging rate and skipping half the superchargers are a major plus.

 

[nwdiver]

So will a 500 miles range even benefit that trip? Hell yeah.

At what cost?

I've also spoken to families doing supercharger trips that enjoyed the built-in breaks.

 

[dipper]

At what cost?

I've also spoken to families doing supercharger trips that enjoyed the built-in breaks.

Did you ask them how long their trips are? And how many stops they are willing to visit? I talked to some retired people on the trip. They seemed to like stopping everywhere. But those are not the norm that are complaining for range.

There are options for people NOT to buy the expensive version. They could buy a short range 3 if money is an issue.

Obviously, money is no issue for some people. And they will be happy to throw their wallet at Musk. Except Musk is making excuses after setting expectations.

 

[nwdiver]

Obviously, money is no issue for some people.

Sure... but if only 1% of buyers are willing to pony up ~$5k for an additional 100 miles of range that car won't be built. How much extra would you pay for 500 miles over 400 miles? My price limit would probably be ~$100... it just wouldn't be that useful.

 

[dipper]

Sure... but if only 1% of buyers are willing to pony up ~$5k for an additional 100 miles of range that car won't be built. How much extra would you pay for 500 miles over 400 miles? My price limit would probably be ~$100... it just wouldn't be that useful.

From the + thread, seems like a lot of people.

So it sounds like Elon is the one with issues making the car at said price.

 

[nwdiver]

From the + thread, seems like a lot of people.

So it sounds like Elon is the one with issues making the car at said price.

..... how much more would you pay for 500 mile range vs 400 mile range?