Shhh... If you don't want to pay, then buy the 400 miles range. Why are you having issues with people wanting to pay for more?
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500 + Mile Range Debate
- Thread starter Kee_Chain
- Start date
Shhh... If you don't want to pay, then buy the 400 miles range. Why are you having issues with people wanting to pay for more?
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
..... I don't have an issue... I'd just like an answer.... how much more would you pay for 500 mile range vs 400 mile range? Why is this so hard?
It will be interesting to see what is considered "necessary" two or three or four decades from now. Compared to 1995, a computer today would typically have 1,000 times the RAM, 500 to 1,000 times the hard drive storage, a screen dwarfing 1995's 14-inch cathode ray screen, a processor hundreds of times faster, and so on. (Not to mention radically improved software.) Batteries probably won't improve THAT much, given basic physics, but I bet someday my Y range will seem quaint. I just need to live long enough...
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
As fast chargers get faster and more abundant I would expect 'necessary' range to go down more than up. More batteries are always going to cost more than less even if the overall cost goes down. A slower computer chip isn't that much cheaper than a faster one and there are applications where you use the additional speed.
Still really curious what the $ figure is. I'd spend ~$5k more for 350 vs 250, ~$1k for 400 vs 350 and ~$100 for 500 vs 400. How much is that additional range worth to save you maybe ~2 hours/yr of charging?
Tesomega
Member
Just saying.. 500 miles is not always 500 miles, there are several losses including battery degradation related to superchargers or regular chargers to take into effect over the life of the car. I have not had 1 charge/discharge which meets the EPA efficiency rating for the car (which translates to miles) I paid $10K for going to 100D vs 90D when I bought the car. Now, I have only the range of a 90D pre degradation as range.
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
Thank you for standing up for those of us in the significantly rural, not to mention cold, hot, and windy, Great Plains. We desperately need high voltage/ kilowatt chargers on our primary state roads. These are often the only if not best way between point a and point b. I am ordering a model x soon. I have watched range for over 3 years. I need at least 350 miles in ”normal” weather and Tesla has finally got that except for weather conditions. other than my garage once I get a charger, I have to 125 miles to a supercharger that is 125 south and I want to go West. A round trip to the nearest town is 130 miles which I can do, but not much wiggle room when cold and windy, meaning 20-30 mph wind(typical). Cybertruck or even the electric F-150 will never make it out in cattle country if it can’t give both range and torque in bitter cold. Otherwise just a city truck for wanna-be farmers. Hopefully, the state highways will get some super chargers real soon.Living in North Dakota, I was pretty disappointed to hear 400mi+ "is not needed" statement. I greatly disagree as I lose about 40% of my pack in the winter, and many of the speed limits are upper 70s and low 80s (all of SD for example, is 80 mph on interstate). Put both together + wind (midwest is always windy), you are realistically down to half of what your advertised range is.
Yes, you can hit up the superchargers, but you are going to be there for a long time as you'll have to get really close to fully charging the pack. In addition, if you have family that lives out in the rhubarb, it's going to be anxious ride. I'd much rather have the higher pack (one reason why the cybertruck 600mi pack is appealing) as I can focus on comfortably making it to my destination and charge at my destination (home, hotel, etc.) rather than sit at a supercharger.
One small jab -- if 400mi of range is "good enough", then why isn't any of Tesla Mobile Service allowed to have Tesla's in the midwest?
A longer range means you’ll spend less time in the tapered charging zone which is what’s really important (charge time). We old folks need to stop and hit the restroom about every 200 miles anyway, so I’d rather be able to get those 200 miles back in with a 10 minute charge than a 30-35 minute charge.
I would pay $15k for above a 600 mile range. Some people are buying the Plaid which is a $50k surcharge to make the car's 0-60 time one second faster. I wouldn't pay a dollar extra to have a car go faster than 4s 0-60.
Come to think of it I would pay $150k+ for a vehicle that gets 600+ miles of range that you can sleep in good weather overnight while it drives itself.
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
But basically if not >600 then ~400? Essentially if you have to stop once then might as well stop twice?
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Not at all. In my admittedly unusual use case that is the barrier from our family going from a one EV & one ICE car to all EV. It all has to do with winter travel in the upper Midwest and Wyoming especially.
Cold, consistent strong winds (see Elk Mountain), ski box, long distance, road closures (see Elk Mountain again). Also lets not pretend we are talking about 400 miles range equals 400 miles of interstate travel either. My 310 mile range Model 3 in April was stopping every 100 to 120 miles taking into account the charge curve. Total number of stops was 7 or 8 (I can't remember if I stopped at the Ogallala SC or not) but I would like to get it down to 3 which at 942 miles I think is within reach.
I do not intend this to be confrontational at all. Just stating that some of us would favor a different use case. I am going to keep my current wagon for another four years or so. If nothing meets those criteria I guess I would settle on a PHEV even with how much we love our Tesla. Most likely I would hold on and wait until something comes up though. Compare this A Better Routeplanner to the dream of A Better Routeplanner.
Other mountain lovers who live in my area look at me like I am crazy any time I mention EV's. Part of the reason I took the Tesla in April was to show it could be done
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
It will be interesting to see what effect the new heat pump has on range. I agree that winter range reduction is a problem but I think that's largely due to older Teslas using resistance heat.
I wish we had options. Like another post here going faster than my car does is worth $0 to me. I’d pay at least 5k to add another 100 miles to my model Y, maybe 8k.
The issue is also a daily roundtrip for job. This case is not often considered.
Assume to travel 200 miles to visit a client and come back.
Each trip is easily doable without stops, but if you can not charge at a client ‘s premises you have to add 30/40 min to the travel time in a day which is probably heavy.
It is a personal matter. In my case I’be happy to add 150 rated miles to my MS raven in exchange of 20.000 euros.
Others would not.
Btw, it is the first time that Tesla releases a substantial battery improvement without increase substantially the range. Not a nice signal…
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
I guess I have a hard time understanding that reasoning. You're saving ~15 minutes of charging. If we're being generous we can say ~30 minutes given the time it may take to park. If you do that every workday for 8 years that's ~€20/hr to relax in a carpark. Is charging really that bad?
How many people do you know driving an ICE car that do relax in a car park so often?
I prefer to relax at home, not in a car park.
Multiply this by 4 (wife + children) and you get my result.
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
Sure.... but they also wouldn't be saving ~€20k by 'relaxing' in a car park for ~15 minutes once a day. If that was an option I bet most of them would. I prefer to relax at home too.... but if the options are dropping an extra ~€20k on a car or spending 15 minutes a day chilling in my car watching an old TV episode on Netflix... I'm doing the second one.
I don't get how some people can't seem to understand that others may have different experiences or preferences. Also, just because you don't need something often doesn't mean you'll never need it. (A fire extinguisher is one example.) Imagine if your time were extremely valuable or you need to get somewhere quickly because of an emergency.
roblab
Active Member
And the 500 mile battery will cost a lot more, plus you have to drag all that weight around ALL the time. Sure, there are edge cases where someone might really use 500 miles, but by far most of the miles I've used are within a hundred miles of home. Paying more for the battery and carrying extra weight all over the place is a lot more trouble than stopping a few times on a rare trip to supercharge. I mean, don't any of you read? I whip out my phone and dial up a book when I'm at the supercharger, or, (gasp!) sit and talk with my wifey. It's not wasted time. For most of us, our cars charge at home in the garage at night, so it's not like it happens all the time, just a few times a year while on a trip. A 500 mile battery would be a waste of money for most folks.
Of course, a 500 mile range on a gas car is not common simply because people can hit the gas station a couple times a week, but my car fills up at my garage, which is a lot easier than hiking over to town to the gas station.
Of course, a 500 mile range on a gas car is not common simply because people can hit the gas station a couple times a week, but my car fills up at my garage, which is a lot easier than hiking over to town to the gas station.
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