TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

60 mph; excellent road markings and AP2 tried to throw the car at the median

Discussion in 'Model S' started by thegruf, Aug 31, 2017.

  1. thegruf

    thegruf Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2015
    Messages:
    1,305
    Location:
    UK
    s/w 17.28.4 cf44833

    One of your biggest fans here Tesla, but bloody annoyed at this morning's incident, and must say this simply is not good enough.

    I don't need my car testing my reaction speed in this manner during my morning commute.

    Car was quite stable on AP on a well marked road as used daily in the lane next to the median, light traffic, clear dry weather, no sun glare.

    A gentle curve to the left and without any warning the car snatches to the right and comes within a gnats of hitting the metal barrier.

    How many times does this have to be said - if the AP loses it's way - beep and disable it, don't just head off in random directions applying an amount of steering lock that quite simply no driver would ever use at these speeds.

    I held off buying an AP2 car due to the early issues and believed they were largely resolved now.
    Sadly I have to say I am wrong, when it's good it is very good but there are still too many occasions when it will behave completely unpredictably and this ruins its utility.

    I have utmost faith in Tesla to get on top of this, but for now this has to be another warning to all to take care and really do keep your hands firmly on the wheel at all times (as indeed required by Tesla) as you cannot predict when AP2 will lose the plot.
     
    • Informative x 24
    • Like x 15
    • Helpful x 1
    • Love x 1
  2. Tiger

    Tiger Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2016
    Messages:
    240
    Location:
    Estonia
    There should probaby be a money back option on AP ;)
     
    • Like x 7
  3. FutureShock

    FutureShock Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2017
    Messages:
    61
    Location:
    NorCal
    That median had it coming! :p

    Seriously though, sounds really scary. I'm hearing so many scare stories/near heart-attacks caused by AP2, it really makes me question whether I'd ever want it on my car, i.e. the used AP1 cars are looking better all the time...

    I mean yeah, someday Tesla will fix AP2, and it'll be awesome... but, how many years are we talkin'? Arghh. :(
    .
     
    • Like x 2
    • Funny x 1
  4. NerdUno

    NerdUno Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    390
    Location:
    Charleston, SC
    Yes, an AP2 car will kill you if you don't drive it the same way you'd drive a vehicle with a toddler sitting in your lap holding the steering wheel. And to think some of us forfeited a reservation deposit on an AP1 demonstrator in order to get in line for an AP2 vehicle. Every day we get closer to joining the class action lawsuit.
     
    • Like x 9
    • Helpful x 1
    • Love x 1
  5. SilkySmooth

    SilkySmooth Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2017
    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    I'm dismayed to keep reading accounts like this. If this flaw isn't corrected fast, it seems like a mere matter of time before someone captures a serious enough crash with a dashcam to get the Feds' attention and lots of negative press.
     
    • Like x 8
  6. croman

    croman Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2016
    Messages:
    1,378
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    This happened to me on 17.11.3. I barely avoided a concrete barrier. AP2 just flung me towards it and while taking control I fishtailed the car (swerved hard but steering has "tension" so in a panic I oversteered and had to correct).

    People say that you can't fishtail in a Tesla AWD -- I did and it was not even snowing/raining. I escaped without harm to my car or anyone around me but I was lucky. Since then I've had no issues but that was one hell of an issue. I'm glad you're ok as well.
     
    • Informative x 2
    • Like x 2
  7. thegruf

    thegruf Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2015
    Messages:
    1,305
    Location:
    UK
    ^ sounds like my effort but with more points for style !
     
    • Funny x 5
    • Like x 1
  8. T_E_S_L_A

    T_E_S_L_A Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2016
    Messages:
    40
    Location:
    Virginia Beach
    Amen to that! How many of these have we heard about now - too many! It does seem like an easy fix but what do I know :rolleyes:. Either way glad you are ok. This won't be the last we'll hear about something like this I'm sure - there will be more :(.
     
    • Like x 1
  9. jjh1234

    jjh1234 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2017
    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Yeah, unfortunately mine made a couple of off the wall swerves last night on my trip from D.C. to Pittsburgh. Luckily, I make the trip at night, there is minimal traffic around and I'm extra vigilant when next to a barrier, etc.

    I'm actually thinking this is a good argument for some sort of dash cam, so any behavior like this that results in an accident can be independently captured.

    I know the AP is only a driver assist, and we are supposed to stay alert with hands on the wheel, but i feel that should be in case of a disconnect, not the AP trying to actively kill me. Lol.
     
    • Like x 4
    • Funny x 2
  10. thegruf

    thegruf Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2015
    Messages:
    1,305
    Location:
    UK
    I will say again - I am not trashing Tesla.

    I know with a thread such as this the class-lawsuiters/knockers and haters will have their say too, and fair enough it is a public forum.

    I just think that Tesla must have owner pressure kept on them to address these issues, and even then fully in the knowledge that no doubt they are putting themselves under massive pressure to achieve what we all want.

    What nobody wants or needs, Tesla and owners alike, is another serious accident.
    I viewed other similar comments as maybe unfortunate isolated edge cases, when it happens to you in a big way for no obvious reason, it forces you to re-assess.

    Perhaps the biggest takeaway for Tesla is that the AP can apply too severe a steering angle vs speed (in turn giving owners little time to react). Now that should be a straighforward parameter to revise in the software.

    @tesla - I have WAP's litterallly pointed at the car - waiting the next patch ;)
     
    • Like x 6
    • Informative x 1
    • Love x 1
  11. boonedocks

    boonedocks Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2015
    Messages:
    758
    Location:
    Gainesville, GA
    @thegruf I have posted in numerous threads on many accounts that I have to be more vigilant using AP2 than driving myself. Have not received ONE hold the wheel nag warning or flashing border using it because it can not be trusted. Have open investigation reports, still have not heard back from even though they asked for detailed information via email, and meanwhile still 5 FW versions old in my car. The HW2 AP2 / TACC situation is just down right sad right now. I drove my AP1 car for many k's of miles using AP and AP2 is still wayyyy behind.

    New hashtag :p #StillWaitingOnMySilkySmoothOrSomethingSpecialElon
     
    • Like x 3
    • Informative x 2
  12. croman

    croman Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2016
    Messages:
    1,378
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    There is no silver bullet. Everything Tesla does during an update has the potential, under the variety of circumstances it is placed into, to lead to an issue. I feel the latest builds are both overall much safer than earlier builds but also more aggressive (which can lead to safety issues).

    I'm a lot more vigilant after my incident but after time that vigilance wears away. I'm glad that you posted your experience because mine was so old I was starting to get lulled into complacency.
     
  13. JohnnyG

    JohnnyG Weee!

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2016
    Messages:
    371
    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    I have to give credit where credit is due... I always took the AP2 frustrations with a grain of salt. I just assumed AP2 owners, especially those that didn't own AP1 first, were maybe expecting too much too soon. I was wrong...

    As my tagline reads, I own an AP1 car. I've learned it's limits (mostly), and get frustrated occasionally at it's follies. That said, I have a ton (probably too much) confidence in it's abilities and predictability of it's behaviors (both good and bad). I recently had the opportunity to drive a new P100DL AP2 loaner for a week and a half. I loved the increased performance, but by the end, I was begging for my car back. You see, I've grown immensely accustomed to using AP when I drive. I will admit that there are some areas where the AP2 car was better, but overall it was way less confidence inspiring and way more stressful than my AP1 car. At the end, I just stopped using AP in the loaner, as it was too unpredictable and aggressive when it would falter.

    To all the AP2 owners out there, I finally feel your pain and truly hope (for many reasons) that AP2 makes huge strides in the near future, or at least becomes more predictable and less aggressive in it's follies.
     
    • Love x 6
    • Informative x 5
    • Like x 5
  14. croman

    croman Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2016
    Messages:
    1,378
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Imagine how bad it was at the beginning. Its night and day compared to back then. 17.17.xx (4 or 17) were the high water marks. Silky editions are smoother on curves but way less safe. Hopefully Tesla starts using the other cameras to boost performance. I'm very disappointed in their lack of communication and progress but at least AP is usable now. For about 5 months it was useless other than as a stress inducer.
     
    • Like x 3
    • Informative x 1
    • Funny x 1
  15. Bebop

    Bebop Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2017
    Messages:
    368
    Location:
    Chicago
    I'm hopeful for the next major 9.0 update coming next month or so. I get a feeling there will be some major improvements.
     
    • Like x 2
  16. boonedocks

    boonedocks Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2015
    Messages:
    758
    Location:
    Gainesville, GA
    +1 and Amen and MicDrop JohnnyG
     
    • Like x 1
  17. RDoc

    RDoc S85D

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,742
    Location:
    Boston North Shore
    The car probably just mistook the outside barrier as a truck and invoked the "Truck Lust" feature.
     
    • Funny x 10
  18. whttiger25

    whttiger25 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2016
    Messages:
    403
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    Please report these incidents to Tesla, just in case they are oblivious to the issues :)
     
  19. davinci2017

    davinci2017 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2017
    Messages:
    198
    Location:
    Milpitas, CA, USA
    I agree, at this point I'd rather have my 5k back. Its been so long and its getting worse and not better, I can't trust the system at all now and fear using it.
     
    • Like x 7
    • Informative x 1
  20. thegruf

    thegruf Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2015
    Messages:
    1,305
    Location:
    UK
    I have no desire to ask for my money back.

    I knew this was new technology undergoing rapid development when I purchased.
    For some very early adopters for sure I can understand the term "misled".

    I fully support what Tesla are trying to achieve, I can even understand that progress is slower than everyone (including Tesla) hoped for and indeed expected.

    This thread though was primarily aimed at providing another cautionary datapoint to other AP2 users, and perhaps that Tesla or @JonMc may pick up on the subject, and re-focus on particular aspects of AP2 related to such a (apparently not unique) incident hopefully to pre-empt a calamitous event.
     
    • Like x 3

Share This Page