60 mph; excellent road markings and AP2 tried to throw the car at the median

[R.S]

Care to quantify that in a percentage? Sounds as if you speak for all Tesla owners

Here, I'll get it started for you:

0.0000x%

Unhappy about their whole car? I totally agree. Unhappy with the way AP in general is handled, I'd say it's way more.

And now go to forums where you know most of the people are M3 reservation holders, like the 3 sub forum, or the electrek discussion page and see what they think an EAP car can do and what the rate of progress it.

And that's basically what worries me most here. We all want Tesla to succeed, because we are financially and emotionally invested. But that will be a lot harder with hundreds of thousand Model 3 owners, that payed 8k for something that just isn't ready.

 

[Joe F]

He plainly said "some". There are "some" in this thread.

Anyway, in this thread it seems the focus is on situations in which EAP fails so that we can track these issues and their -- hopefully -- eventual repair.

Please don't continue trying to turn this into a thread about the posters themselves or fill it with claims that sometimes EAP works well. Neither is relevant. Easiest way to avoid allergic reactions is to stay away from your allergens.

That wasn't my intent more than it was to provide a balanced view to those new to this forum, especially those who are considering their first Tesla purchase. Comments like "unhappy and disillusioned some MS owners are" without assigning a number to the "some" is misleading. It's not at all about the posters, it's about righting an unbalanced message.

Given the track record of Tesla with Mobileye, AP2 is not a write-off, yet.

While I'm disappointed with how long it's taking to get to the finish line, and have had my share of posts pointing out issues which affect driveability, in the grand scheme of things, it's a process.

Upthread I pointed out tar lines caused my MS to swerve within the lane. I reported it here to alert others who might have perfect roads in their area and have never experienced the problem, that it still exists. I also reported it seconds after it happened to Tesla, hopefully all here do as well.

 

[ppwaskie]

I have an AP2 Model S 90D, and it has done this multiple times now since the "Silky Smooth" firmware update. It does the "squirrel!!" lane-change, along with the sudden braking and going in the lane with no obstruction. I was just driving to the airport this morning and had both of these happen.

I am getting very disappointed in the enhanced AP2 package. I've talked with my service center here in Portland about it, and they wanted me to take them out on a drive to show it happening. I can't believe they wouldn't have evidence of this already, especially how many Tesla's are in the Portland area. Paying $5000 up-front for something that is still not properly working nearly 1 full year after I paid for it is a bit ridiculous, even for Tesla.

 

[BrockParker]

My car is 4 moths on the road and has the same problem.
Also happened on my loaner car.

 

[pdq]

I will say again - I am not trashing Tesla.

I know with a thread such as this the class-lawsuiters/knockers and haters will have their say too, and fair enough it is a public forum.

I just think that Tesla must have owner pressure kept on them to address these issues, and even then fully in the knowledge that no doubt they are putting themselves under massive pressure to achieve what we all want.

What nobody wants or needs, Tesla and owners alike, is another serious accident.
I viewed other similar comments as maybe unfortunate isolated edge cases, when it happens to you in a big way for no obvious reason, it forces you to re-assess.

Perhaps the biggest takeaway for Tesla is that the AP can apply too severe a steering angle vs speed (in turn giving owners little time to react). Now that should be a straighforward parameter to revise in the software.

@tesla - I have WAP's litterallly pointed at the car - waiting the next patch

s/w 17.28.4 cf44833

One of your biggest fans here Tesla, but bloody annoyed at this morning's incident, and must say this simply is not good enough.

I don't need my car testing my reaction speed in this manner during my morning commute.

Car was quite stable on AP on a well marked road as used daily in the lane next to the median, light traffic, clear dry weather, no sun glare.

A gentle curve to the left and without any warning the car snatches to the right and comes within a gnats of hitting the metal barrier.

How many times does this have to be said - if the AP loses it's way - beep and disable it, don't just head off in random directions applying an amount of steering lock that quite simply no driver would ever use at these speeds.

I held off buying an AP2 car due to the early issues and believed they were largely resolved now.
Sadly I have to say I am wrong, when it's good it is very good but there are still too many occasions when it will behave completely unpredictably and this ruins its utility.

I have utmost faith in Tesla to get on top of this, but for now this has to be another warning to all to take care and really do keep your hands firmly on the wheel at all times (as indeed required by Tesla) as you cannot predict when AP2 will lose the plot.

I agree with thegruf.

While I love AP and use it as heavily as I can in my 2015 P90D, it can not be trusted. When someone asks me what it's like, I tell them "Imagine that you are a passenger in a car being driven by someone who just got their Learners Permit". You MUST keep your hand on the wheel as it will do unexpected things for no perceivable reason. But with me keeping my hand on the wheel, I use it as much as possible when on main highways.

 

[claudelaval]

s/w 17.28.4 cf44833

One of your biggest fans here Tesla, but bloody annoyed at this morning's incident, and must say this simply is not good enough.

I don't need my car testing my reaction speed in this manner during my morning commute.

Car was quite stable on AP on a well marked road as used daily in the lane next to the median, light traffic, clear dry weather, no sun glare.

A gentle curve to the left and without any warning the car snatches to the right and comes within a gnats of hitting the metal barrier.

How many times does this have to be said - if the AP loses it's way - beep and disable it, don't just head off in random directions applying an amount of steering lock that quite simply no driver would ever use at these speeds.

I held off buying an AP2 car due to the early issues and believed they were largely resolved now.
Sadly I have to say I am wrong, when it's good it is very good but there are still too many occasions when it will behave completely unpredictably and this ruins its utility.

I have utmost faith in Tesla to get on top of this, but for now this has to be another warning to all to take care and really do keep your hands firmly on the wheel at all times (as indeed required by Tesla) as you cannot predict when AP2 will lose the plot.

same thing happen to me last week not once but twice. If I had known that you have to keep your hands on the wheel all the time I would not have taken this expensive option...

 

[seenhear]

What I'm wondering is if these problems are exclusively with the Autosteer feature, or if TACC plays a role, too?

In my 24-hour test drive of a 2017 100D last week, I used EAP a lot in the ~200mi I put on the car. I was not very pleased with Autosteer at highway speeds especially in lane 1 on a freeway (along the median). However I absolutely LOVED the TACC.

I am now considering buying new/inventory instead of used/CPO for the promise of EAP/FSD and the all glass roof (which was so awesome for fit for a really tall guy, and just looked amazing too).

I figure the autosteer will come eventually to have parity with AP1 (and eventually surpass it), but in the mean time TACC is what I really need/want/like. But if people are having problems with TACC too, I'd like to hear about it.

 

[croman]

What I'm wondering is if these problems are exclusively with the Autosteer feature, or if TACC plays a role, too?

In my 24-hour test drive of a 2017 100D last week, I used EAP a lot in the ~200mi I put on the car. I was not very pleased with Autosteer at highway speeds especially in lane 1 on a freeway (along the median). However I absolutely LOVED the TACC.

I am now considering buying new/inventory instead of used/CPO for the promise of EAP/FSD and the all glass roof (which was so awesome for fit for a really tall guy, and just looked amazing too).

I figure the autosteer will come eventually to have parity with AP1 (and eventually surpass it), but in the mean time TACC is what I really need/want/like. But if people are having problems with TACC too, I'd like to hear about it.

TACC is also flawed currently though it is much better. I've had TACC lose sight of moving trucks and lunge after them (truck lust) and a host of other issues (phantom braking, failure to slow for vehicles). The same warnings that apply to AS will apply to TACC but TACC is just that much better that it lulls you into thinking it is foolproof but it is not.

 

[JohnnyG]

I just had an AP2 loaner for the past two days again. And again after trying repeatedly to use it like I do my AP1 car, I had to concede and stop using it. It makes me stressed and nauseous. I still hold true to my statement made here...

Again I stopped for a moment, and thought about it from the perspective of all the new excited Tesla purchasers from last October. They test drove an AP1 car, and were sold an AP2 car, with the promise of how wonderful it would be. They paid for a car that they couldn't use many of it's features upon delivery, with the promise of parity with the car that they test drove in just a couple months. Here we are almost a year later. Some of the basic car (not AP specific) features are still just being turned on, and the $5,000.00 option they were so excited about when they test drove the AP1 car, still does not perform up to par with the car they test drove a year ago. Again, if you read my earlier post, I'm an AP1 owner, and you'll know that I thought the AP2 folks were getting just a little too worked-up, but I was flat wrong. How about the folks that paid for a short-term lease? I do strongly believe and have faith that they will improve on AP2 and surpass AP1, but this timing has gone well beyond running a little late on what was promised upfront. Especially on the non-AP specific features.

So again, my understanding goes out to all those AP2 owners, and especially the ones who test drove an AP1 car and received an AP2 car.

 

[HeartofGold]

We have a 12 month old MS with AP1 and a 5 month old MX with AP2. I don't put on AP with my family in the car - neither version is sufficiently reliable for my tolerance of risk, but I do use it sometimes on my own (perhaps 500 miles in the last 18,000). The feature may work one day, but I am not holding my breath. For now I have paid some hefty sums for features that I choose not to use, and whilst it irks, its ok - I bought the cars because they are fabulous to drive, not because one of the several gimmicks (and there are others - autopresent MX doors anyone?!) doesn't suit my taste, for now.

One day this technology will be safe and reliable (see Fully Charged's episode on Nissan's LEAF self-driving in London for a glimpse of the future), but I much prefer driving the cars myself for now, and it is still much more relaxing doing so than any other I've had.

 

[scottm]

AP is no good for me because road infrastructure is no good, and snowy weather conditions. I will not choose APx for our Model 3, ever. They can (and should) keep any extra / un-needed hardware out of my car and pass on the cost savings to me. I will not choose software features for auto-pilot. But I want all the safety features I can get. Consumer agencies will hold Tesla to task on keeping these apart and available aside from AP / convenience features. So I should be good.

Road markings were designed for people with the idea of "lane keeping" by staying between the lines. Road markings are not well maintained, and often not visible due to weather conditions. Road markings are not standardized enough around the world.

If roads and markings were re-thought for auto-piloting it would be a lot easier for cameras and computers to use them. But this requires new standards and I figure it's not going to happen in my lifetime.

Think instead of a painted rail running down the middle of the lane with the idea of keeping your car centered over the rail... and changing symbols or patterns on the rail indicate upcoming changes or opportunities (intersections, ramps..). Imagine what you can do:

• "double solid line center rail" means no lane departures allowed
• "dashed left or right rail with other solid" means can can elect to change to lane on dashed side (but only if safe)
• "dashed both" may change either lane
• dash frequency or pattern or symbol change - has various meanings.. but all cars are coded to the standard
• etc.. etc... there must be bodies working on this

With mandated rules, auto-pilot cars must remain centered on the rail unless actively changing lanes.
Loss of sight of rail? BLEEEEEEP manual control, car starts coasting / light decel, emergency flashers go on.. until human takeover.

It might be possible to intermix the old human lane side markings with a new center rail system, to handle auto-pilot and self-pilot cars. However, governance of auto-pilot cars (built into the cars - mandated) would only allow operation on rail enabled routes. No rail, no auto-pilot, sorry.

 

[jeffro01]

The big "failure" here, IMHO, is the complete and total lack of communication from Tesla regarding EAP... Someone correct me if I'm wrong but there has been really no communication from Tesla about the current state of EAP, what they're working on exactly, what the next steps will be, where they are at, really anything... Tesla has always been exceptionally poor at communication but that simply isn't a good excuse when it comes to this... I feel like a lot of your frustrations would be address if Tesla would just tell everyone where they are at with the development and what is being worked on now, etc...

This lack of communication, combined with report after report after report of poor EAP functionality, just begs otherwise happy customers to become very unhappy and very sour...

This is a great opportunity for Tesla to change they way the communicate and inform their customers, both current and potential, to keep everyone in the loop... Transparency is the way to go, always. I just hope EAP is all sorted out by this time next year as my lease will be coming up but that's just me being a bit selfish...

Jeff

 

[Dr. McKay]

This happened to me on 17.11.3. I barely avoided a concrete barrier. AP2 just flung me towards it and while taking control I fishtailed the car (swerved hard but steering has "tension" so in a panic I oversteered and had to correct).

People say that you can't fishtail in a Tesla AWD -- I did and it was not even snowing/raining. I escaped without harm to my car or anyone around me but I was lucky. Since then I've had no issues but that was one hell of an issue. I'm glad you're ok as well.

This exact thing happened to me. Was doing ~70 in the left lane and it suddenly turned straight toward the median. This was a while ago though.

 

[suwaneedad]

M3 reservation holder (~Mar '18 delivery estimate). This info is really helpful. I had intended to buy AP initially, and buy FSD down the road once perfected. Knowing that AP is still unreliable, I'll punt on that as well and pay $6k rather than $5k once the tech has been proven out to the general satisfaction of the user base. This thread just saved me $5k next year and more importantly a ton of owner frustration; thank you.

 

[lglover35]

This is a regular occurrence. I have friends, and my wife, who are fearful of riding as passengers when I use autopilot. I would never turn a car over to a computer. It's only something for ease like cruise control, not for self drive by a gaming derived graphics processor circuit board. You must ALWAYS stay in control!

 

[AnxietyRanger]

"They shipped a broken product and can not get it fixed." I see continual improvement with each release.

Sure, there are continual improvements in some ways - and then other ways it is going backwards. AP2 is much smoother today than it was when I got my car. It has more automated features and speed ranges.

On the other hand, it is absolutely terrifyingly dangerous now, when it didn't use to be. It will very smoothly drive me out of the lane into a concrete wall, if I don't wrestle it at random times.

Seriously, I used to use it. It was "drunken" in its lines, but other than that merely ghost braking in the beginning. Now it is ghost steering too and that is seriously dangerous. And of course it still ghost brakes too. A lot.

I tried it again this week, had to turn it off very quickly afterwards. Oh and this has been divided motorways only, anywhere else would be insane to even try.

It did NOT use to be this bad. I mean, it was bad, now it is dangerous in my car.

 

[BeamMeUp]

s/w 17.28.4 cf44833

One of your biggest fans here Tesla, but bloody annoyed at this morning's incident, and must say this simply is not good enough.

I don't need my car testing my reaction speed in this manner during my morning commute.

Car was quite stable on AP on a well marked road as used daily in the lane next to the median, light traffic, clear dry weather, no sun glare.

A gentle curve to the left and without any warning the car snatches to the right and comes within a gnats of hitting the metal barrier.

How many times does this have to be said - if the AP loses it's way - beep and disable it, don't just head off in random directions applying an amount of steering lock that quite simply no driver would ever use at these speeds.

I held off buying an AP2 car due to the early issues and believed they were largely resolved now.
Sadly I have to say I am wrong, when it's good it is very good but there are still too many occasions when it will behave completely unpredictably and this ruins its utility.

I have utmost faith in Tesla to get on top of this, but for now this has to be another warning to all to take care and really do keep your hands firmly on the wheel at all times (as indeed required by Tesla) as you cannot predict when AP2 will lose the plot.

Had a same experience already twice now with an AP1 car! As if someone with an invisible lasso catches your car and pulls it into the barrier.

 

[SlicedBr3ad]

s/w 17.28.4 cf44833

One of your biggest fans here Tesla, but bloody annoyed at this morning's incident, and must say this simply is not good enough.

I don't need my car testing my reaction speed in this manner during my morning commute.

Car was quite stable on AP on a well marked road as used daily in the lane next to the median, light traffic, clear dry weather, no sun glare.

A gentle curve to the left and without any warning the car snatches to the right and comes within a gnats of hitting the metal barrier.

How many times does this have to be said - if the AP loses it's way - beep and disable it, don't just head off in random directions applying an amount of steering lock that quite simply no driver would ever use at these speeds.

I held off buying an AP2 car due to the early issues and believed they were largely resolved now.
Sadly I have to say I am wrong, when it's good it is very good but there are still too many occasions when it will behave completely unpredictably and this ruins its utility.

I have utmost faith in Tesla to get on top of this, but for now this has to be another warning to all to take care and really do keep your hands firmly on the wheel at all times (as indeed required by Tesla) as you cannot predict when AP2 will lose the plot.

This is my biggest fear buying eap! Is there a process to report this and track to resolution with Tesla? Seems like the most important issue they need to resolve as this will be the autopilot fault if someone missed this split second moment and crashes.

 

[DeFries]

As for the ppl talking about the Audi assist solutions, let me enlighten you on that. I have an A6 2013 right here, and I can assure you that it is years behind Tesla when it comes to lane keeping. Audi is correctly calling it 'lane assist' and its only function is to keep you from crossing the lines, not to keep you centered. It works as a form of autosteer only if you like ping-pong.

As for cameras, Audi's assist setup is similar to AP1: one camera on the windshield, radar where the foglights would otherwise be and ultrasonic front and back. That's it.

All other cameras are only there for human use. I have the rearview and the nightvision (IR) built in, but they're not linked to any of the assist features. You can get a 360-view package, but this will only result in 6 or 8 little windows on your parking assist screen. The actual active parking assistant will not even use them.

So enjoy the features you already have, Tesla truly is way ahead. Even with all the flaws mentioned.

 

[rgreen]

With respect to TACC, I leased an AP1 model S90D and was very comfortable with auto steer and TACC in it so that is my vehicle for comparison purposes. I own a 2017 Subaru Outback touring. The binocular camera based TACC system in the Subaru is FAR superior to the TACC in my AP1 Tesla. Much smoother and recognizes many more difficult response situations. The lease rate on my Subaru is also 1/4 of the lease rate on the Tesla (-; . Working AP, not just TACC, is a gating issue for me to get another Tesla. Until it is fixed I will wait.