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60 vs 75, am I thinking about this correctly?

Discussion in 'Model S: Ordering, Production, Delivery' started by Rahul, Jun 28, 2016.

  1. Rahul

    Rahul Member

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    I've just placed an order for a 75 RWD after I deciding I don't really need to spend an additional $15K for the 90D. The 249 EPA rated miles is enough for 95% of our daily driving. For the 2-3 trips a year we would possibly take from Phoenix to SoCal or Las Vegas the additional 1 or 2 hours charging time also doesn't seem to warrant the upgrade.

    Now I'm wondering if I should go further and downgrade to the 60 to save another $8500. After reading quite a bite, it seems the general consensus is that the 60 can be safely charged to 100% since it's the 75kWh battery giving 210 EPA rated miles. If the 75kWh battery should be safely charged to only 90% then we're talking 224 EPA rated miles. That comes out ot a difference of only 14 EPA rated miles for $8500.

    My consternation is that if I'm going to end up wanting to unlock the 75kWh capacity later, I might as well do it now so that I can roll the cost into the financing at 1.49% instead of paying cash later.

    Does anyone have an opinion on this? Did you get a 60 only to unlock later for a road trip?

    Gosh, picking the options for a Model S has been so difficult, I don't think I spent this much time deciding on my house!

    TIA!
     
  2. STbreaker

    STbreaker Member

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    I think the answer lies in how often you're going to need that extra milage.

    I drive about 60 miles a day and rarely more than that so if I had to order again, I would get a 60 without hesitation. I'm thinking about picking up some shifts for work that are about 200 miles away. The 70 can make it without stopping while the 60 would be cutting it closer. But even that would be once a month at most, so I would still get a 60.
     
  3. Discoducky

    Discoducky Active Member

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    After 3 years of driving the 60 and lots of 1000+ mile trips (with kids) I don't mind the little bit of extra charging time. But will upgrade to a bigger battery in 5 years or so when the gigafactory has reduced the cost
     
  4. Rahul

    Rahul Member

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    This is good feedback. I plugged in a sample trip from PHX to West LA in evtripplanner.com comparing a 60kWh w/ 19" and a 85 w/ 21" (closest I think to 75 w/ 19"). Comes out to 8:29 total trip time / 3 stops vs 7:26 total trip time / 2 stops. That's not insignifcant but for something that might happen 2-3x a year at most it's hard to justify the $8500.
     
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  5. kavyboy

    kavyboy Member

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    More miles is better, but it seems to me that the value is on the low end for situations like yours (and mine). I have a 70 RWD, and only just recently had my first trip where it looked like I might have a range issue. However, that was partially due to my forgetting to do a full range charge the night before. Then we hit Texas heat with full AC and range mode off, and a headwind, and I stuck to speed limit + 5, and I decided to meander a bit, plus I got more nervous about the 5% remaining at destination than I really should have. (I was experimenting and pushing limits for both the car and me.) When I saw that there was a destination charger literally at the exit I could see ahead, I stopped, plugged in, had lunch, and all was fine. (Had I not stopped, I would still have made it home just fine.)

    I don't want to downplay the importance of a little planning, but it seems like it's really easy to over-think the issue. Put your likely routes in evtripplanner.com and get a feel for your situation.

    If I had a 60 option upgradeable to 75, I would not have hesitated to choose 60. But that's me.

    Another way of thinking about it: the $8500 pays for all your car rentals for your occasional trips, and you get the rental's roadside assistance, no mileage depreciation, walkaway insurance, etc.
     
  6. Canuck

    Canuck Active Member

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    But keep in mind that after you own and drive a Tesla it's REALLY hard to go back to driving an ICE, especially on trips. This sounds fine in theory but I bet most people would end up scratching the rental and deciding to spend more time charging rather than driving an ICE. The good thing about the new 60 is no regret for buying too small of a battery since you can always pay to unlock.
     
  7. Rahul

    Rahul Member

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    That's the thing... I will still have a minivan and convertible so I could just take those but I feel like I will want to use the EV as much as possible. And if I'm going to eventually upgrade I would rather just get it into the loan. However, it looks like for the best bang for the buck in my situation the logical thing to do would be to go 60
     
  8. kavyboy

    kavyboy Member

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    Agreed on the ICE thing, 100%. I'm taking a trip soon, and I'm already trying to find an affordable way to rent a Tesla. (Anyone near SFO want to lend me a car I can show off to my kiwi friends? :))
     
  9. Chopr147

    Chopr147 Active Member

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    I don't even have my S yet and I'm already thinking about never driving an ICE again. :)
     
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  10. Canuck

    Canuck Active Member

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    I also have a Tahoe Hybrid and before I bought my Tesla, over 2 years ago now, I thought I'd still drive the Tahoe, especially since I go to my cabin a lot and haul up a lot of stuff with me. Well, I just can't bring myself to drive it unless I need to tow my boat, or in winter when there's a lot of snow. I have the larger frunk and it's unbelievable how much stuff I can jam into my car, plus the 5 of my family. And jam I do rather than drive and ICE. Now I just start the Tahoe every now and then to charge the 12volt and hybrid batteries but otherwise it mostly sits.

    You've got a tough decision to make but again the good thing is that you can always pay to unlock later if you decide on the 60. That was never an option in the past. If you can afford it, go for the 90. Maybe also consider selling the minivan and/or convertible.
     
  11. Camera-Cruiser

    Camera-Cruiser Fully Charged

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    Get the 60kWh, as others have said you can always unlock it later, and I am very interested in the whole charging to 100% thing. I can't see why they would create a situation that would adversely affect the pack by doing so, since it is really a 75.

    I think what will be more interesting though, is what will the rated miles actually show on a 60kWh pack that has been charged to 100% daily for a year, and then unlocked and then charged to 90%, and then again to 100%. What will the degradation be?

    That is when things will get interesting.
     
  12. Rahul

    Rahul Member

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    I can afford the 90 but I'm just one of those people that has to justify it. I know there's a lot of just get whatever you can afford on TMC but I'm not wired that way. :) Checking on evtripplanner.com it won't make enough of a difference to justify the 90D. However, I just checked trips specifically to Las Vegas and San Diego and the 60 vs 75 looks like I have to take non-optimal routes. What I'm gathering from everybody is that I WILL want to drive the S as much as possible. So I think I'll stick with the 75 so that I'm financing the cost (and saving $500). I really appreciate everyone's feedback!
     
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  13. ChadS

    ChadS Petroleum is for sissies

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    #13 ChadS, Jun 28, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2016
    Rahul, I think you're mostly thinking along the correct lines. One minor mistake I think you are making, though, is considering the range difference to only be 14 miles because you'll only charge a 75kWh to 90%. That's true for day-to-day driving...but day-to-day driving is not when you need the extra range. You need the range on road trips, and then is when it does not hurt at all to charge a 75kWh to 100% - you just don't want to charge it to 100% every day and then LEAVE IT THERE in your garage. As long as you leave soon after you charge, charging to 100% is perfectly fine.

    I have an 85kWh and there are several routes I am challenged on, and often have to go the long way around or plan an L2 stop or something. My next Tesla will have the largest battery available. But I don't live near you or know what types of trips you commonly take, so my situation may not apply.

    One other thing to complicate the decision: if you plan to buy rather than lease, and trade the car in to Tesla for a new one some day, Tesla might offer you a relatively larger amount for a 60kWh because it's just as valuable as a 75kWh to them.
     
  14. MSullivan

    MSullivan Member

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    I think you made the right choice. When I chose I only had a 70 or 90 option. Toyed with the 90 but like you couldn't justify the $13K for just a few road trips a year.
    Luckily the 75 option opened up before production began and I felt that was a great compromise.
    Extra acceleration is not a factor. This car has more than enough oomph for me.
     
  15. ABCCBA

    ABCCBA Member

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    @Rahul Are you planning on purchasing or leasing? If leasing, then the smaller battery is a wise choice, as it will reduce your payments and you don't have to worry about resale value at the end of the lease - just walk away. If you are purchasing, you might want to consider that in three years your 60KWh Model S will be competing against the likes of a higher spec'd Model 3 and you may not have as good of resale or trade-in value as a larger capacity Model S that won't have competition from the Model 3s. JMHO
     
  16. Rahul

    Rahul Member

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    That's really good to know about the 100% charging. I'm surprised to hear that you're challenged with your 85kWh. Out of curiosity what's a route that you're challenged on? What's an L2 stop?

    Thanks! It helps to get some confirmation on my decision. :)

    I am purchasing the car. We don't switch cars that frequently and hope that this car will last a good 5 to 8 years for 100K-150K miles.
     
  17. ChadS

    ChadS Petroleum is for sissies

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    #17 ChadS, Jun 28, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2016
    L2 is Level 2, or 208-240V AC charging. It delivers somewhere between 3kW and 19kW - which compares to 120kW for Supercharging. It's awesome for overnight stops, but really sucks when you are waiting to continue your journey.

    I live near Seattle. I have to work long and hard to plan a route around the Olympic Peninsula, Mt Rainier, or along scenic Hwy 20. I mean, yes, they all have electricity and I know I won't be stranded - but there are not enough Superchargers to make the trips without having to plan for a longer stop. I don't have the option of taking a gas car, as I sold it in 2009. (And no, I am not going to rent a gas car! EVs are just too nice to drive, even if the trips take more planning and sometimes you have to take the long way).

    I'm currently planning a trip to Reno. There are plenty of Superchargers to get there...but with another 50 miles of range (or...MOAR SUPERCHARGERS!), the trip could be far more interesting on one route, or more than two hundred miles shorter on another. There are Supercharger leaps I just can't count on making. (It is frustrating because there are several I might make on a good day...but what if there are, say, headwinds that day? I don't want to cut it too close).
     
  18. Shawn Snider

    Shawn Snider Member

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    Where do you guys see the option to 'upgrade' your pack? (60-75) I know they had it as a purchasable option a few weeks ago, but now on both sites that option is now gone, replaced with Rigid singular un-upgradable packs. 60/D | 75D | 90D | P90D.
     
  19. ABCCBA

    ABCCBA Member

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    @Rahul You statement is a very interesting statement for sure. Not because you said it, But, because once you own a BEV, you will soon quickly learn that you are driving a computer. And, just as computer technology is improved according to Moore's Law, so too will BEVs - Electronics, batteries, Sensory, etc.

    So, the old ICE model of owning a car until the wheels fall off are soon going to be gone. The whole Automobile Industry model is moving to a 'share' model, where people don't own cars anymore. With autonomous driving just a few years away, you won't want to own an 'Intel 286' automobile when the 'Intel Core i7' automobiles are faster. cheaper, safer and more efficient. JMHO

     
  20. Chopr147

    Chopr147 Active Member

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    The website options were changed. Probably a sales idea to get more 75kw buyers. But others here have been assured the 75kw option is still available to the 60kw. I spoke with a Tesla rep. today that agreed with that sentiment and confirmed (as far as he knows) Tesla no longer makes the 60kw battery.
     

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