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60 vs 85 - impressions

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by Crispix, Apr 11, 2014.

  1. Crispix

    Crispix Member

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    Been driving a 60 today while my S85 is in for service. There have been a lot of threads asking about how the 60 and 85 compare, thought I'd throw in my 2watts:

    My car: S85, coil suspension, 19" tires
    Loaner: 60, air suspension, 19" tires

    Overall, I really can't tell if there is any significant performance difference between the 60 and 85. Acceleration seems about the same and is plenty quick, or at least 0-30mph feels the same. Maybe the final 30-60mph is slightly slower than the S85? If that's true, it's only slightly different.

    The 60 car feels a bit lighter, but I don't know if that is my imagination or if it's the difference between the coil and air suspension. It's a minor difference at most.

    Other tidbits:

    1. Interesting to see that the power usage meter (on the speedometer) has different markings: at the 15kw, 30kw, and 60kw levels vs 20kw, 40kw, 80kw in the 85.
    2. The acceleration whine kicks in a lot earlier in the 60, almost instantly when flooring it. On my 85, I only get the whine after a few seconds.
    3. The 60 maxes out at 240kw vs 320kwh on the 85. Maybe that's where the extra oomph from 30-60mph comes in on the bigger battery?
    4. Folding mirrors are pretty cool. My car doesn't have them and I was pleasantly surprised to see that the mirrors fold automatically when parked. That's a great feature, wish I had it.

    Still, given the lower weight of the 60, I think the initial acceleration is about the same even if the 85 can put out slightly more power -- as if that extra juice compensates for the extra weight. Has anyone done a measured test between the 60 and S85?
     
  2. Btrflyl8e

    Btrflyl8e Active Member

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    Interesting thing about your point #2. I have a 60, and have recently driven two P85 loaners. In both, I got the whine almost instantly in the 85s, where in mine I sometimes don't even hear it ever. I think these cars are like snowflakes, no two are exactly alike.

    I did feel a difference in acceleration, but my 60 is fast enough. Plus, those loaners limited my fun, anyway :tongue:
     
  3. green1

    green1 Active Member

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    Per the design studio The difference in 0-60 times is 0.5 seconds (5.4 vs 5.9) which I'm pretty sure you'd never be able to tell without measurement equipment.
     
  4. Trnsl8r

    Trnsl8r Blue 85kwh since 12/8/12

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    P85 is quite a bit quicker off the line compared to the S85 though, at least that my experience from the loaners.
     
  5. tliving

    tliving Member

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    From other posts on the forums some of these differences have been seen in the same models/same configurations. What are the chances you're just seeing 2 different builds/code levels vs actual differences?

    The sales guy when I bought mine said the 60 and 85 weighed the same. Said they put empty cells in the battery pack that had the same weight so they didn't have to deal with pack weight differences etc.
     
  6. Crispix

    Crispix Member

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    Picked up my 85 again, so the switch back is fresh in my mind. Final answer: acceleration feels the same. I realize now why I thought the 60 felt lighter: the regenerative breaking was noticeably stronger in the 60 and the car decelerated faster.

    Like the above posters said, maybe it has nothing to do with the battery packs and is just due to different builds.

    In any case, I liked the 60: great car. I think the take-home lesson is that those of you who managed to score a 40kwh car got an amazing deal. Well done.
     
  7. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

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    That's interesting. That's the first I've heard that. I though I've seen specs where the 60 was a few hundred lbs lighter than the 85 hence it's a bit more efficient at Wh/mile. The manual indicates this too but not explicitly:

    egytu7yh.jpg
     
  8. Btrflyl8e

    Btrflyl8e Active Member

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  9. v12 to 12v

    v12 to 12v Active Member

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    Drove a S60 with active air and I have a P85 with active air. It was like driving two completely different cars.

    The S60 had a more active ride and it did seemed to have more feedback in the feel and the way it drove. You felt more of the road texture too. Part of this could have been tires (different 19" on each car) but it seemed like the difference was in the feel of the suspension. The feel was so different that I asked Tesla whether the S60 was without air suspension. I was surprised to hear that it did have the active air. The active air in the S60 is likely calibrated differently than what is in the P85.

    Accelerator response was different too. It took much longer for the S60's regen limitations to go away when having a cool battery and the regen is limited at higher temperatures.

    "Whine" may have been different upon acceleration because I have a Performance, but it could also differ because I was driving my own car on a different version of firmware. I noticed a difference in the "whine" with different firmware versions in my P85.
     
  10. wndrful

    wndrful Member

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    #10 wndrful, Apr 13, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2014
    What I have read on suspension modification efforts done by several forum members is that newer cars have different sub-frame mounting, different lower control arms etc etc. Apparently, these modifications result in later models having more crisper drive with better roadfeel as compared to earlier models. This is specifically for P85 models. But this could be true for S60 and S85 as well.

    I see that you have an early signature model. Maybe the differences you are noticing are more due to suspension modifications than S60 vs P85 differences?
     
  11. gg_got_a_tesla

    gg_got_a_tesla Model S: VIN P65513, Model 3 Res Holder

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    Regarding air suspension differences, I have a very early 60-with-air (vin 3552) and recently had a brand new 60-with-air loaner (vin 28863). I couldn't tell any substantial difference in road feel. The new car was just a touch "tighter" overall in fit and finish, as is to be expected.
     
  12. wndrful

    wndrful Member

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    Well, there goes my conspiracy theory!
     
  13. VolkerP

    VolkerP EU Model S P-37

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    Good conspiracy theories don't go down when confronted with reality, they get endorsed. Keep working.
     
  14. Owner

    Owner Active Member

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    I recently did the same thing. Had a 60 loaner. My impressions were more than I really missed my 21"s more than I missed the 85.

    60 Loaner Report | Tesla Owner
     

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