60 vs 85

[yobigd20]

"Free Michelin tire upgrade" I know this is a 1K upgrade and is given free (included) with 85 kWh. If I go with 60 kWh, I will not take this upgrade. Can someone tell me, how this upgrade is useful. Like this tire has a better durability etc.

Better in almost every single category, plus they are "Green X" aka "Low Rolling Resistance", supposedly adding about 3% range.

Basically: better tread life, better range, better traction (especially in rain!), better handling, quieter, smoother (comfort over bumps)... I have gone through several cars that had OEM Goodyears and every single one of them I replaced with Michelins and it is like night and day. The biggest things that are most noticeable to me are usually around >50% greater tread life and the handling in rainy weather. I'm still running on my stock OEM Goodyears but I am planning on replacing with Michelins when they are due.

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At the end of the day, for me the only real difference comes down to trips. I have the 60 and love it. Ive had a P85 loaner when inwas in for service and didnt care for it any more than my car driving around town. The only times ive regretted not getting the 85 was when we took it on road trips. On the east coast we are still mostly fine with the suoercharger rollout, but any time you go off that 95 corridor, or want to take a detour, it becomes more of a question. (Or roadtripping in winter when its cold).

Thats not to say you cant roadtrip in the 60, it just adds some peace of mind (and a lack of need for planning) if you have the bigger battery.

Also, not that I am advocating for a 60 (I am firm on recommending the 85) BUT just a little devils advocate in me, this couple did prove that it is possible to take a 15,000 mile road trip in an 60kW: Cross-Country Trip | Tesla Motors

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

I'm a very happy 60 camper. My daily commute's about 50 miles now and I've clocked a few 125-150 mile weekend days with no issues. Eleven months and almost 16,000 miles later, I'm very glad to have invested the difference ($11k in my case - free supercharger enablement for early 60s and with the CA sales tax) in TSLA!

The 60 does indeed beat most cars out there handily and the performance difference to an S85 is negligible (I've driven all variants of the MS). The 60 is purportedly lighter too and gets you better energy efficiency on average (see the Lifetime Wh/mile thread elsewhere on these forums).

I'd recommend saving up that $8k (or $10k if you defer SC-enablement for now) + sales tax and get a 60. One day, ten years from now, when there's a 150+ kWh pack available, I intend to use my savings to upgrade to that

 

[Tacket]

Im going to chance an answer:

Keeping it clean ... I will never own another black vehicle as long as I live. Beautiful when clean. 5 minutes later, dirty, dusty ....

Yeah, basically that. Going to OC Pro this weekend, so hopefully that will ease the cleaning process somewhat.

 

[TXjak]

I placed an 85 order on 7-Dec. Then I thought that I also need rear seats. So cost before 7500 refund is around 96k with sales tax. I have an Odyssey which I will keep in the family. My work place is 25 miles one way. Not counting long trips, I expect that I will not need more than 150 miles in a day. I live in south Florida in Broward near Miami. I can afford 85. I need help deciding if I should finalize on 60 and save 10k. I have few more days before I must finalize. I know this topic has been discussed before. I am not looking for P version. Thanks for all the help.

As the owner of a black 60 with nearly 18,000 miles on it, I have no regrets yet. Most of the miles (80-90%) have been added by my wife and I'd say mostly under 100 mi/day with the occasional day up to 150 miles. In Austin, we also use the air conditioning a lot, but I don't see it as a significant drain. The longest day trips I have made were 545 miles and 376 miles in the last couple of weeks since we now have five SuperChargers in Texas.

One of the things to consider for your long trips is how fast you will be driving. For instance, on one 100 mile leg of my 376 mile trip this week, I used nearly 150 miles of range. Much of that leg had a speed limit of 75, but I was probably doing between 80 and 85 in those stretches. Naturally, for long trips the 85 kWh battery will let you go about 28% farther than the 60 kWh before you need to recharge, so it may make sense if you want to travel at higher speeds or make fewer charging stops.

P.S.: Since the latest software does not lower the car at speed, I would expect some improvement in the range once that capability is restored.

 

[Enadler]

Only you know for sure but the first time you want to road trip and have to plan an extra stop or 2 or use your ICE you will regret not spending the $8k.

 

[montgom626]

Im up the street ...

Get the 85. You can limit the charge and get the most life and if you need the extra range, its there.

Excellent point.

 

[cablue]

We have a black 60 and silver 85. The 85 was bought after the 60. If you can afford it, go for the 85, imo. Those road trips that you think you'll just use the van, you honestly will NOT want to. You'll want to take the Tesla! You'll be disappointed that you didn't just get the 85, making it easier for those longer trips. Again, just do it if the money is not that significant an issue. The 60 is awesome, too! The 85 just gives you that extra comfort. And we've not regretted the black, either. It's beautiful!
'

 

[amitb00]

These comments were very thoughtful. Even though some of you may have felt that these threads were repeating information from previous threads, they helped me big time. I appreciate all this and am happy to inform fellow Tesla enthusiasts that my order has been finalized. I chose S60. It does seem that I am likely to use Model S for my daily drives and weekend errands. I will likely take Odyssey for road trips. I am not in a cold climate. Even with some range loss, S60 will work out OK in city. I have added rear seat to increase capacity for the car and use it as much as I can in the city. There are many good reasons for buying 85 and even though I may regret my decision of finalizing on S60 sometime, I guess with a backup of Odyssey I will do OK and will appreciate Tesla more often as I will be driving sometime the gas car and will not be totally spoiled. I guess it will be my initiation into Tesla club. Once time comes to retire Odyssey and if all works out well, I will get Model X which I will use for long drives. At that time, I do intend to go all out for the largest battery available at that time. By then I would have switched completely to electric and hope in few years, there will be better charging options making this transition fun and less painful for road trips.
Very happy to be part of Tesla family. Never knew owning a car will allow me to meet on cyber world, so many enthusiasts and nice & smart persons. Cheers, Amit

 

[neroden]

Every one I have met that has a 60 regrets not getting the 85.

Actually, many of the people who originally figured that the 40 was enough are very happy with the 60.

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Better in almost every single category, plus they are "Green X" aka "Low Rolling Resistance", supposedly adding about 3% range.

Basically: better tread life, better range, better traction (especially in rain!), better handling, quieter, smoother (comfort over bumps)... I have gone through several cars that had OEM Goodyears and every single one of them I replaced with Michelins and it is like night and day. The biggest things that are most noticeable to me are usually around >50% greater tread life and the handling in rainy weather. I'm still running on my stock OEM Goodyears but I am planning on replacing with Michelins when they are due.

Also my plan, though with my number of miles driven, I have no idea what tires will be the best when mine finally give out.

One thing I've found is that better tires are actually genuinely valuable. It's most important for snow tires, but even in the summer, you'll *like* having better traction.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

Cheers, Amit! You've chosen well. What's the lead time that you are looking at for production on an S60 now?

Edit: just noticed your signature. Feb 2014, it is then!

 

[tomanik]

I love the car but do wish we had went all out for the 85 over the 60. During the summer the 60 was perfect allowing us to drive anywhere we we go on our day trips (over 300km without charging) without concern, as range was very predicable. Now that we have hit winter I wish we had an 85. We have already had a couple weeks of temperatures around -20 C and range has suffered more than I had expected. If I waddling it over again I would have found the money and done an 85 for range only as the 60 is plenty spirited.

 

[AmpedUP]

A story of buyer's remorse over 60 vs. 85 here:

http://www.greencarreports.com/news...model-s-battery-upgrade-from-60-kwh-to-85-kwh

 

[crmohler]

I just got mine and was really concerned about the 60, but wasn't willing to put out the extra $8,000 (I got supercharging enabled) for the 85. So far, I'm really happy with my choice. I'm only charging daily to 70/75% and I've still had tons of miles left over. There will be a few day trips that I have to plan, and maybe 1 a year that I'll have to charge where an 85 wouldn't, but so far I think I made the right choice. I'm in SoCal and my car is kept in a garage at night, so weather hasn't been an issue. I think for certain people the 60 is an excellent choice.
By the way, in terms of performance, I definitely don't need anything more. The car drives like a dream and I haven't been able to floor it because it's too much like a roller coaster without doing so! There are really no words for how exceptional this piece of machinery is.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

There are really no words for how exceptional this piece of machinery is.

Hear, hear.

Did one leg of my first true roadtrip from the SF Bay Area down to Anaheim (for Mickey, of course) in my 60. SC-ing at Gilroy, Harris Ranch, Tejon Ranch and Hawthorne was a breeze. Although the total time door-to-door was a long 10 hours (the 85 could have skipped Harris Ranch and Hawthorne, I suppose), I loved every minute of it; my friend - in his first time in a Tesla - riding alongside and driving partway, remarked that it was as if we were on a cushion of air and that we arrived almost as fresh as we started! He hated having to switch to driving his minivan from Tejon onwards when the families synced up there

 

[crmohler]

Hear, hear.

Did one leg of my first true roadtrip from the SF Bay Area down to Anaheim (for Mickey, of course) in my 60. SC-ing at Gilroy, Harris Ranch, Tejon Ranch and Hawthorne was a breeze. Although the total time door-to-door was a long 10 hours (the 85 could have skipped Harris Ranch and Hawthorne, I suppose), I loved every minute of it; my friend - in his first time in a Tesla - riding alongside and driving partway, remarked that it was as if we were on a cushion of air and that we arrived almost as fresh as we started! He hated having to switch to driving his minivan from Tejon onwards when the families synced up there

Curious how long you stopped at each supercharger with your 60? Or, how long you needed to stop, not counting extra eating/shopping/etc.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

Curious how long you stopped at each supercharger with your 60? Or, how long you needed to stop, not counting extra eating/shopping/etc.

Let's see: arrived at Gilroy with 80 miles to spare and left about 65 min later with 200 as it was just about wrapping up charging to max. Perfect timing given the lunch break.

Arrived at Harris Ranch with 59 miles left and left with 172 miles after 45 min. More than enough time for a bio break and trying out the macaroons and pastries at the Harris Ranch bakery (umm, I don't eat steak much).

Arrived at Tejon Ranch with 6 miles to spare (!! Did 85-90 mph between Harris and Tejon while keeping track of the buffer between the distance and the range left). Left with 182 miles after 70 min and dinner.

Arrived at Hawthorne with about 80 miles left and left with 172 miles after 35 min.

On average, the charge rate did ramp down noticeably quickly as the charging progressed and as other cars arrived to share the sibling port. My wife wasn't particularly impressed with this aspect and the 10-hour journey time; she thinks that the 200-miles-of-charge-in-30-minutes bit has a long way to go. But, I was just grateful that all this was even possible

 

[Phillymomof4]

Let's see: arrived at Gilroy with 80 miles to spare and left about 65 min later with 200 as it was just about wrapping up charging to max. Perfect timing given the lunch break.

Arrived at Harris Ranch with 59 miles left and left with 172 miles after 45 min. More than enough time for a bio break and trying out the macaroons and pastries at the Harris Ranch bakery (umm, I don't eat steak much).

Arrived at Tejon Ranch with 6 miles to spare (!! Did 85-90 mph between Harris and Tejon while keeping track of the buffer between the distance and the range left). Left with 182 miles after 70 min and dinner.

Arrived at Hawthorne with about 80 miles left and left with 172 miles after 35 min.

On average, the charge rate did ramp down noticeably quickly as the charging progressed and as other cars arrived to share the sibling port. My wife wasn't particularly impressed with this aspect and the 10-hour journey time; she thinks that the 200-miles-of-charge-in-30-minutes bit has a long way to go. But, I was just grateful that all this was even possible

Just confirmed my S85 order last week and I don't think I have the patience to do any real road trips until there are more and faster super chargers along the East Coast. If you have lots of time to hang out while your car is charging and don't haven't time constraints, or 4 kids in the car, , then taking hour-long charging breaks every 2-2.5 hours is fine. But I really don't want to make a long road trip even longer by having to stop so often. We just drove 700 miles from Philly to Okatie, SC in a Prius V, and it took exactly 15 hours with a few stops (would have been 14 hours without the traffic congestion on I-95 in SC). To think that trip could take closer to 18 hours if we had to stop for 30-60 minutes every 200-230 miles to charge is unpalatable. We are keeping our Prius until we know road trips are more doable. My Model S will just be my daily commuter.

 

[GDH]

I love my 60 and I have no need for an 85 however we got such a good deal on an 85 we couldn't resist so the 60 is for sale.

 

[Nrk7001]

Get the 85. Better warranty. Supercharging included. Free Michelin tire upgrade. 40% bigger battery. It's also faster. WELL worth the $10k value.

Every one I have met that has a 60 regrets not getting the 85. (well, there are a few on these forums that "say" the 60 is plenty, but really they are just trying to make themselves feel better because they also regret not getting the 85).

was just thinking all of that. I got the 60, and although i don't regret it, wish i would have got the 85 for these reasons. Should have done my homework more. Didnt realize that it charges to 80% to save battery life, and most superchargers are being built distances to accommodate range of the 85.

 

[Kraius]

and most superchargers are being built distances to accommodate range of the 85.

I could be wrong but I was pretty sure most super charger distances are based on the 60 kw battery (maybe at "max charge", but still...).

In terms of 60kw vs 85kw, it really is going to depend on your requirements. I always tell people buy the car you need for 95% of the year. That last 5% is typically really expensive compared to the rest of the car. I have friends who buy trucks because they may need to use the flatbed someday, but only really do maybe twice a year. I keep telling them to just rent a home depot truck those times and get something they'd enjoy more. Conversely, if you want features specific to the 85kw (slightly better performance), go that route. Range itself should really be based around your expected usage.