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60D owners, why did you not choose 90D?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by krazineurons, Jun 20, 2016.

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  1. krazineurons

    krazineurons krazineurons

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    Hi, I have ordered my model S and am inside the 1 week grace window to change the configuration. I am sure it gets asked a lot here but i am confused if I should stick to 60D and upgrade to 75D later or straight up get the 90D.

    Following the threads so far, the recommendation is to go for the highest available range if we plan to drive a lot more cross country, however I haven't done much cross state or cross country road tripping which might justify the outright need to get the additional range but I am worried if I will get the yearn to drive a lot and then regret the missing range.

    My daily commute isn't more than 200 miles even on the busiest day (weekend, lots of shopping trip) average commute is 30miles a day.

    If needed I can afford the additional monthly payments for the 90D but if I can get away with it and still remain remorse free, i would be the happiest person on earth.

    Can I get some words of wisdom?
     
  2. WannabeOwner

    WannabeOwner Member

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    Bad/Cold weather / heavy right foot will reduce range (perhaps allow for 20% worst case). Also some degradation - e.g. 6% over 3 years

    Would either be enough to be a nuisance?

    I believe that a bigger battery will super-charge faster (in terms of miles added per unit of time)

    The 60D looks like a really sweet deal ... with the upgrade available if you find you need it. And maybe? no "actual" battery degradation over time as the 60 is only a virtual limit ... and maybe?? it has the super-charge rate of a 75
     
  3. MBCottage

    MBCottage Member

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    It's 4:03am and I understand your worry. Most of the year it's my daily driver. But every summer, I do drive across the country. So, It took me a year to decide on "want or need." I drove the 70 then the P85D. I knew what I wanted. I saved everything I could for 10 months...Then, I purchased 2014 P85D delivered Dec 30th. (So...it has everything a 2015 has.) My dream car!! Get what you really want. No regrets.
    Best advise I can offer: Test drive both options again or even twice. You will be driving your decision everyday.
     

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  4. DCGOO

    DCGOO Member

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    #4 DCGOO, Jun 20, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2016
    I'd go for the 90D, especially if you think you might want or need 200 miles without charging. Remember, it is not possible to have too much battery. You will need to drive it like a Prius to sort of get near 200 miles in a 60. What is fun about that?
     
  5. msnow

    msnow Active Member

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    If cost isn't an issue go for the 90D.
     
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  6. 2virgule5

    2virgule5 Member

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    If you have to drive around 200 miles from times to time don't forget the weather: it would be fine in summer but would be significantly reduced with snow and low temperatures. If it's never more than 150 then it could fit but you'd have to charge to 100% for that to even happen. It also depends on local presence of Supercharger around you. True, if you get the 60 you have the option to pay for 75 if really it's too tight.
     
  7. WannabeOwner

    WannabeOwner Member

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    Maybe it is OK to always charge a "Virtual 60" to 100% (which would be 80% of a 75) ?
     
  8. Jaro73

    Jaro73 Member

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    Does anyone have a tool for Europe which allows one to plan a EV trip based on battery capacity? Would be great if Tesla allowed online access to the built in planner which suggests loading stops on a route.

    I've started with a 90d but now went down to 60d with few extra options. 99% of the time 60d for daily stuff is wayyy more than enough as are short trip. If it proves to be an issue, there is a) my Maserati Granturismo S or b) upgrade to 75 available.

    For the record, I'm in Switzerland.
     
  9. WannabeOwner

    WannabeOwner Member

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    Does

    EV Trip Planner

    do the trick? I tried a route from Lausanne to Montreux which seemed to work OK - not many superchargers anywhere nearby though.
     
  10. chillaban

    chillaban Member

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    It was simply a matter of cost vs benefit. I ordered a 70D while the 75D was offered, and now that the 60D is offered, if I were ordering a new Model S, it'd be a 60D.

    First off, I learned a long time ago that showing off your car around the SF Bay Area is a wallet emptying futile proposition. There's already like 15 P models of various types in my parking lot at work. So I surrender. I'm getting a car that feels expensive to me but won't "impress" anyone. After all, the car is for myself, not for everyone else.


    Speaking from a practical standpoint, the 90D gets you more range and acceleration over the 60D. For me, my commute is 20 miles round trip. And there's adequate chargers at both ends of my commute. Even if it were only on one end, at 20 miles per commute, even assuming a buffer of 30 rated miles per commute, it'd still be several days before I'd need to charge. A 200-mile EV is already much much more than practical. For day to day driving, it's worth mentioning that you should also compute recharge times: Public J1772 chargers will only fill your car at the rate of 16 to 20 miles per hour. With 50 miles remaining on my 70D, a full charge takes 9h30m or so. That's longer than I generally stay at work. Even if I had a 90D, I wouldn't even be able to fill it up during my workday.


    I also plotted out longer trips. I mainly only road trip to either Reno-Tahoe or Vegas. Both trips were within easy reach of supercharging and the 90D did not provide significant trip duration improvements either.... IIRC it was maybe 20 minutes less charging in the worst case scenario.

    And acceleration wise: The 70D already matched an Audi flagship sedan where I paid for the largest engine choice available. I barely tapped into all that power, and the 70D more than satisfied me during my test drive. While the 90D was definitely better, it wasn't in a way that I really needed.


    So at the end of the day, it was a $13,000 decision to add 60 miles or so. And I couldn't come up with any compelling reason why I'd source benefit from that. I decided it was much better for me to save that $13,000 in my pocket. You know, for that inevitable day when I'd want to trade in this car for something cooler. Over the course of getting 4 luxury cars (>$60,000 each) in 5 years, one lesson I learned is that buying unnecessary functionality will really bite yourself in the *** if you don't enjoy that every single day. Because when it comes time to trade in, you're never winning the "but it will greatly improve your resale value" argument. Yeah there's a grain of truth, but it never truly balances out.
     
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  11. DiamondDave

    DiamondDave Member

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    I had a similar quandary, only 85D was just out of my price range (90 was an option). So, for me, the decision was a new 70D (no 75 yet) or a CPO P85. I test drove a 90D under 70D simulation mode then with the regular 90D power. While the 70D performance was very good, the 90D was absolutely exhilarating and my decision was made. I went with the similar performance of the P85 and gave up auto pilot, 2nd gen seats, etc.

    Range for me was a minor consideration compared to performance as I felt that the 70 (and now the 60) would cover my daily needs of 30-50 miles easily. From comments of classic 60 owners here on the forum I thought I could live with the lower range during my three or four road trips each year.

    If finances allowed, I would definitely have gone new 85D, gotten one of the first refresh S's, auto pilot, almost 300 miles range, and ridiculous (not ludicrous) acceleration all in one package.
     
  12. K_style

    K_style Member

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    Completely agree with you and share same situation.
    One benefit of living in Bay area for sure.
     
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  13. RogerHScott

    RogerHScott Active Member

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    It would have to be some pretty extreme conditions for a 60 to not get you between most pairs of SCs, so the extra range is
    only practically an issue if you're travelling in SC deserts. I'm a 90D owner, but I would encourage people today to seriously
    consider the new 60 and whether the differences vs. the 90 are really worth the large price differential.
     
  14. STbreaker

    STbreaker Member

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    Without rehashing what other people have said too much, the 90D is more about performance than range. It's going to be a rare case where the difference in range actually alters trip planning. And it definitely is not going to matter for your daily driving needs
     
  15. msnow

    msnow Active Member

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    Most of the people I know including me bought it more for range. The performance is great but not that much different from an 85D.
     
  16. RogerHScott

    RogerHScott Active Member

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    But the OP was asking about versus the 60...

    I think pretty much the exact same things could be said about the performance. And you can always get the D to get some boost there.
     
  17. ChadS

    ChadS Petroleum is for sissies

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    OP, will the Model S be your only car, or do you have one or more gas cars in the family? If you have a gas car as a backup, given your description there is pretty much no question that you don't NEED the extra battery capacity and can get by on 60kWh. The price difference is significant, and there's a lot you can do with that money (including applying it to a future Tesla).

    Of course, if people only bought the car they NEED, we would see an awful lot more of the Toyota Yaris on the road. Even if you don't NEED it, here are some reasons (all mentioned above, just collected here) that you might WANT the 90kWh:
    • the car will be quicker
    • the battery will last longer because the vast majority of wear is cycle life, and the cycle is larger with a larger battery
    • a larger battery spends less time at a Supercharger to add the same number of miles
    • many new EV owners find themselves losing interest in their gas cars. Even though they could take their ICE on a trip, they would rather take the EV - if it has the range. Needing the bigger battery is surprisingly easy even if you stay in state - look at what it would take to visit the Olympic Peninsula, Mt Rainier or traversing scenic Hwy 20, for example. I have an 85 and I feel very challenged on those routes - but I'd much prefer to not take a gas car even if we still had one. When we replace our Model S, we will buy the largest available battery.
    • circumstances change. My first EV (a 2003 Toyota RAV4) only had ~90 miles of range, which was plenty for the 4 years I had it because we had a longer-range car as a backup (my wife's plug-in Prius conversion at first, then a Tesla Roadster) and all of my driving was local. But (see preceding point) my wife's Prius was long ago replaced with a Model S, and now circumstances dictate that I take a 92-mile trip every week. Fortunately both of our current EVs are Teslas, because nothing else has the range to ensure I could make my weekly trip in all weather. On a 33-degree heavy-rain day, I have seen my range drop as low as 2/3 of the rated range, so I don't count on my car taking me farther than that without having a charging stop planned (even though in good weather I can skip it).
    Of course, nobody but you can compare the value of these things to the value of holding on to the money, so the decision is all yours. Either way you are going to have a great car!
     
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  18. ggnykk

    ggnykk Active Member

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    #18 ggnykk, Jun 21, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2016
    If money isn't an issue, like you pointed out, you should go for 90D. If you want to ensure that you have no regrets, getting the 90D will ensure that.

    Higher capacity means faster supercharging (more time driving, less time waiting), more range, more margin of safety for unexpected weather or detour, higher driving speed, greater flexibility, less range anxiety, better battery life (coz less extreme state of charge of the battery will be used), the list goes on and on. Plus, you go from 0-60 mph faster with 90D.

    If you want to go for 60 kwh battery and "wait and see" if you need more range, then decide later on if you want to upgrade to 75 kwh. That's a really bad "plan b" in my opinion. You should either go with 60 kwh or 90 kwh battery. Upgrading 75 kwh for $8500 is a very bad deal in my opinion. When you get the new 60 kwh battery, it is basically a 75kwh battery software limited at 80%. Since the remaining 20% supercharge extremely slow and very few people would wait for that, it means getting the 60 kwh or 75 kwh would make no difference in 95% of the real world use cases.
     
  19. ggnykk

    ggnykk Active Member

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    Not sure about Europe, but this website (EV Trip Planner) is a popular one in US. You can get some rough idea with similar distance for comparison.
     
  20. David_Cary

    David_Cary Member

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    1 year 70D owner here. While I would probably buy a 60 today, the differences portrayed here I don't necessarily agree with.

    I have never taken a multi supercharger trip but I've taken several 250 ish mile trips. I've supercharged 8 times or so.

    Scenario 1 - headed to inlaws 170 miles away for 24 hours. No supercharger directly on the way (2 on perfectly ok routes though). Stayed for 24 hours plugged into 120. Range charged before I left and didn't have to hit a SC. With a 60, I would have SCed. With a 90, I could have driven faster. I did a run at 68 in a 70 and took some lower mph backroads (more direct - no more time).

    Scenario 2 - headed to beach house at 140 miles away for 4 hours (had to drop stuff off and do a project). No supercharger between here and there (Warsaw opened 2 months later). Made it home fine. Drove 70 when I would have typically driven 78. On a 90 - could have driven faster. On a 60 would have had to stay at beach house 2 extra hours.

    Scenario 3 - Williamsburg. 240 miles. Stopped at a supercharger on way since I wasn't fully charged when we left. Arrived to Williamsburg with 40 miles and no destination charger. With a 60, would have had to park in a garage and cab around. Turns out we did to get return mileage but when it was convenient to do so. Stopped at a chademo for lunch to make it home with 10 miles to spare. 90 - Chademo wouldn't have been needed. With a 60, we would have had to make a supercharger stop - crappy options too - as in not at meal time and not much around.

    Scenario 4 - Myrtle beach - 220 miles. SC on the way. Lumberton - a bit sketchy at night but it was daytime. On return trip, we left at 9 pm and didn't stop at Lumberton. With a 90, could have driven faster and not taken back roads. With a 60, would have had to stop. Wife would not have been happy.


    Ok - there were more but you get the idea.... Life is not about driving supercharger to supercharger on 1000 mile trips. At least for me. It is about 200-250 mile trips where superchargers can be skipped. Or you can drive 80 mph. Skipping a supercharger can be 30+ minutes even if you just need a little charge since you have to get off the highway and some are a trek off the highway.

    In my experience, a 60 or 90 would make a difference on the majority of my road trips. Not huge but still. I realize that I am on the East coast and everyone of these discussions usually winds up with a "smell the roses" talk from my West coast friends. We don't have any roses at superchargers here. OP is West coast so there is that. But I have no regrets from my 70 and I'd probably get the 60 today. I lease and it was $200 a month. Total time saved with a 90 - 4 hours tops. Total lease payments $2400. I'd guess another $120/month less for the 60 and it would cost another 4 hours a year. Still pretty good. But not if you have the funds....
     
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