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60D vs 90D - Worth $18,000 difference

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by k diesel, Jun 10, 2016.

  1. k diesel

    k diesel Member

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    After configuring with desired options, the difference between a 60D and 90D is $17,500. Is this worth the money for the experience? I am buying the car for a long commute (120 miles a day) for comfort, autopilot, and technology. I am trading in my 2015 Mercedes CLS63 AMG-S (577hp, 600lbs torque) which is a performance beast. My goal is to have the comfort, autopilot, tech. I don't care much for the acceleration of the 90D or P90D. The range of the 60D is okay for me

    Will I regret the 60D?
     
  2. calisnow

    calisnow Active Member

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    I came from a 500 hp E55 AMG and I do not miss driving it one darn bit. I went with a 70D Model S. Would a P85D be awesome? Of course - but I needed to get two Teslas so I had to save somewhere by going lower spec.

    Having said that - what are your plans? Do you plan to keep this car 500,000 miles and 10-15 years? If so you perhaps might want the larger battery because when your 60 degrades to maybe 80% of its capacity 200,000 miles from now you won't have as much excess to start with. OTOH 60's now have 75 battery packs so you could always pay later to upgrade it.

    And, the $18,000 you save would probably buy a much larger replacement battery pack 5-8 years from now if you decide to keep the car forever.
     
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  3. k diesel

    k diesel Member

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    Thanks Calisnow... you can relate to where I am coming from. Its hard for me to justify a $108K price on the 90D (after options. For me, that is in the range of near-exotic sports car. I liked the 90D when I drove it, but it cant compare to the raw sportiness of the CLS63 - but its not supposed to. Im not looking for a car that is similar to the AMG.

    In the past 2 years, this will be my fourth car (2008 MB C350, 2014 Porsche Cayman, 2015 MB CLS63 AMG-S). I can see myself keeping it for at least a few years, given my long commute. ive been looking for the perfect commuter car - comfort, tech, autopilot - gamechanger! id rather buy a dedicated sports car if the time was right, than spending that $$ on a higher spec'd tesla. The range on the 60D is enough for me.

    What do you think?
     
  4. k diesel

    k diesel Member

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    Thanks Calisnow... you can relate to where I am coming from. Its hard for me to justify a $108K price on the 90D (after options. For me, that is in the range of near-exotic sports car. I liked the 90D when I drove it, but it cant compare to the raw sportiness of the CLS63 - but its not supposed to. Im not looking for a car that is similar to the AMG.

    In the past 2 years, this will be my fourth car (2008 MB C350, 2014 Porsche Cayman, 2015 MB CLS63 AMG-S). I can see myself keeping it for at least a few years, given my long commute. ive been looking for the perfect commuter car - comfort, tech, autopilot - gamechanger! id rather buy a dedicated sports car if the time was right, than spending that $$ on a higher spec'd tesla. The range on the 60D is enough for me.

    What do you think?
     
  5. travwill

    travwill Member

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    I'd say go with the 60D as it will meet your commute needs and your not in a horribly cold climate. You'll lose 25% of that range in the Winter probably and a little more say 10% at highway speeds if makes up most of your commute. If you find your running a little lower than you want, at least then you can upgrade for 9K to a 75D that should meet your needs.

    You have a 120 mile commute. I'd say the 210 miles is the 100% number, but you only charge to 90% daily so you start with just 189 in a 60D. Then say middle of road case you loose 20% due to colder times and faster driving and only have about 150 miles rated available - may cut it a little too close and require you to jump up to 75D then (or have purchased 90D to start with). You'll want to be able to take the detour when needed, run additional places possibly, etc.

    One thing is that you'll find like many people you'll either 1) be fine with the lower range model, or 2) get the range bug and want as much range as possible always (thus the 90D is the best option).
     
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  6. ModelS2015

    ModelS2015 Member

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    #6 ModelS2015, Jun 10, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2016
    I want to provide a different perspective as I went with a 90D and I upgraded from an 85D last year. Let me preface this by saying that you will be fine with whichever option you get. I would get the P90DL if I could afford it but that's not a realistic option for me at this time. Some prospective buyers can buy a 60 because that is their price range and can now afford a Tesla that they couldn't before. Some buyers can afford whatever they want. It sounds that you can definitely afford both but wondering if the cost justifies the difference.

    I would say yes to the 90D, personally, and this is why its important to me. During the winter and depending on how cold it gets, the car efficiency can go down 20% as has been mentioned or even more up to 30-40% depending on if you use heated seats, car heat, driving habits, etc.. The regen of the car is reduced also if its really cold outside. Your driving habits can also greatly affect the efficiency.

    I like to have the luxury of having extra miles and to use my heated seats, put heat on max, not limit the way I drive, and not worry if I would run out of charge. If I were to commute 120 miles in the winter, I could be using 160 miles easy. With a 90% charge 60D, you would be at 189 miles. If you want to go to a friend's house, or go to the shopping mall, etc., you may think twice if you have 30 miles left. Realistically, you will probably not have many instances where this happens, but it will happen and you will think about it. Will those instances, albeit rare, make you regret not getting a 90D? Will driving more efficiently in those instances bother you? I only say that because you drove an AMG before and even though you say you don't care about performance anymore, sometimes that's hard to change :)

    Also, if you decide on upgrading to a 75D with the unlock later on for $9,000, keep in mind that you won't get the benefits of the acceleration. So what that means is you will only be saving $8,500 (17,500-9,000) from your calculations and you will have a 75D versus a 90D without the acceleration benefits. Since you live in NC, the winter will not be as cold as it is in other states and may not affect your car's efficiency as much as it does for others.

    Those are just some considerations that may be helpful.
     
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  7. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    The maximum range difference 25% less with the 60D but from a daily driving standpoint it's actually less. Say you're commute was 218 miles a day. That would be 100% of your battery but you couldn't do that daily without hurting the battery. But the 60D is really a 75D so charging to 100% on the 60D is really only using 85% of the battery so you could get away with doing that daily.

    So yes, given your stated needs, a 60D would be just fine and it's 0.7 seconds faster to 60 than the old 60 model was.
     
  8. FlatSix911

    FlatSix911 918 Hybrid

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    Another consideration on charging ... Tesla’s new 60kWh pricing option is a software revolution, here are the exclusive details

     
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  9. GoTslaGo

    GoTslaGo Learning Member

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    @FlatSix911, Thanks for that link. One other interesting point in that article:

    "You can upgrade whenever you want. I was on a long trip with my 40kWh and finally decided the extra range would make my drive back so much easier. I called Tesla and within a half hour they removed the barrier over the air and my car was now a 60kWh. The trip back with supercharging was much quicker and less range anxious."

    Cool!
     
  10. FlatSix911

    FlatSix911 918 Hybrid

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    Glad to help ... just keep in mind that the upgrade is permanent. I have never needed more that 70kW in my travels. :cool:
     
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  11. kort677

    kort677 Active Member

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    the short and sweet answer is do you need the added range of the 90 in order to be able to meet your daily driving needs? do you take many long road trips that would require SpC stops? if the answers are no, then the 60 should be sufficient.
     
  12. Hojo

    Hojo Member

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    I appreciate the comments herein which have helped me with the similar decision. One, which in the end, seems fairly clear.

    I have retired now so there is no commuting miles to consider. Between golf, the fitness center and routine errands, I may drive 100 miles a week. Occasionally we drive into New Orleans or over to Baton Rouge. No winter weather concerns here. When we really need to hit the road, we take the wife’s Range Rover; as we are invariably bringing something to the kids or traveling to Colorado for the summer. So the 218 miles available in the 60D seem plenty for my current needs.

    Fortunately, since these are Tesla Model S’s under consideration, all the colors, features and options I am considering are available in the 60D. Should I need more miles, I can buy them later. Should we start taking the Tesla on the road, I can then add the Auto Pilot features. The term “base model” seems to make little sense when every color, feature and option is available throughout the entire model range from 60 to P90DL (save perhaps staggered wheels and red calipers — both readily available from aftermarket suppliers).

    So for me it becomes a question of performance, which requires some perspective. I doubt anyone would fairly characterize my Porsche 991 Targa as anything but a top tier handling and performance sports car. It certainly is not Porsche’s “base model” nor its “cheap model”. Driven by an experienced hand using the PDK transmission’s “launch mode”, the normally aspirated engine will power the car from 0 to 60 in 4.8 seconds. Anyone who can jam the Tesla’s accelerator can take the 60D from 0 to 60 in 5.2 seconds we are told. Not much difference, and that’s likely because of how the power is delivered. The Porsche’s lower torque of 287 lb-ft means the real acceleration happens above 4000 rpm. With the Tesla’s 387 lb-ft of electric torque, the acceleration is immediate. And that is true regardless of whether you are accelerating from a dead stop, accelerating onto an interstate or accelerating for highway passing. This instant power has to be the first thing any performance driver notices when test driving the Tesla for the first time. Couple this with the low slung battery weight and you can have a delightful handling performance car.

    Would I rather have the 90D’s 0 to 60 speed of 4.2 seconds? Sure. Is that one second worth the $18,500 difference in price between the identically optioned cars I have under consideration? Hardly. Instead, I think I will spend a little of that saving on some 20” TST’s fitted with Michelin PSS, some Xpel for chips and ceramic coating to keep the MC Red shinny. :)
     
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  13. k diesel

    k diesel Member

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    Thanks for the advice guys! I appreciate it. I went to the dealership today and drove a 70D - not bad in terms of power, but not good as well. This was the refreshed 2016 model.

    Interestingly, the dealer said he may be able to get me an inventory non-refreshed 90D for 10k off sticker price. What do you think now? 8500 for 90D with nosecone vs 18500 for refreshed 60D? Hard decision again because I dont like the nosecone - but i dont know if i dislike it enough to not go for this type of deal
     
  14. Footer

    Footer Member

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    Keep in mind that you can never fully charge the 60D battery because of the software limit. That means you can charge it the full 218 miles without degrading the battery. It will also charge faster nearing the 218 mile limit than a 90D nearing it's 294 mile limit. Other posters have mentioned the Service Center can do a real 100% charge annually to improve battery life. The 60D seems like a great deal. I hope Tesla can still make money giving up $8500.
     
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  15. AoneOne

    AoneOne Member

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    What's your worst possible day: commuting plus errands and appointments plus an urgent road trip in a direction where the nearest supercharger is quite a distance away in sub-freezing weather? Is your battery big enough for that? Are you willing to live with the uncertainty of not having that capability? In my point of view a bigger battery is a form of insurance, and one I've gladly paid.
     
  16. markn455

    markn455 Member

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    Whatever size battery you get driving 120 miles per day you should opt for the dual charger option. Your car will charge in much less time. So, if you,have to go back out again with short notice, you won't have to wait very long to build back up to a usable charge. This possibly is also good justification for a larger battery.
     
  17. callmesam

    callmesam Member

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    I used to commute 140 miles each way in my Model S60 and you will be fine.

    You don't need dual chargers.
     
  18. kort677

    kort677 Active Member

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    this needs to be qualified with that you had the opportunity to recharge while at work or you'd have never been able to make the return trip.
     
  19. callmesam

    callmesam Member

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    You've heard of Superchargers?

    No work charging required.
     
  20. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    Because batteries degrade over time, the larger battery will last longer before it has too little range to be effective. If you are out of Supercharger range, every bit helps, and a larger battery also lets you skip SCs. In addition, when it's very cold or there is wind the range goes down so the larger battery lets you make the trip.
     

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