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60kw upgrade to 85kw, Was told by multiple Tesla Sources not possible at this time.

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by islandbayy, Aug 30, 2013.

  1. islandbayy

    islandbayy Active Member

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    Hello all, I have contacted a number of Tesla Employees, including Service Store Managers, and answer is always the SAME from each source.
    Apparently, at this moment, their are Technical and Software reasons that a 60 cannot be upgraded to a 85. I was told the connections/hardware pose a compatibility issue, as well as the software was not setup for it.
    Obviously, I am not able to undertake the task of dropping my battery to see the connections, so I cannot match with photos that I have seen on the 85kw battery packs.

    Anyone hear different from a TESLA EMPLOYEE (not rumor from 3rd party)?
    I'd like to hear input, as if I could upgrade to the 85, I'd do it in a heartbeat!
     
  2. Eikrokei

    Eikrokei Member

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    Given the cost of the battery pack it would probably be cheaper to sell the 60 and buy a new 85.
     
  3. Alfafoxtrot1

    Alfafoxtrot1 Member

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    This would seem to impede swapping.
     
  4. islandbayy

    islandbayy Active Member

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    Looked into that, no, much much more expensive. The hit taken in value just from registering the vehicle already makes it cost prohibitive. And idealy, they would take the 60kw pack as a partial trade twords a new (or used) higher capacity pack.
     
  5. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    How long have you had your vehicle?
     
  6. islandbayy

    islandbayy Active Member

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    3 months 6 days & Just going to hit 9,000 miles.
     
  7. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    Sorry for being nosy, but I was curious to see how long it was for "non-upgrader's remorse" to kick in. :)

    If I was in your shoes, I'd watch like a hawk to see when the first available-to-owners swapping station gets built. (Given the recent construction, maybe Hawthorne?) As soon as there are signs of where that location will be and that work is underway, immediately mail ownership@ to ask them how much it will cost you to keep the 85 kWh battery that you'll be swapping-to as soon as that station goes live.
     
  8. islandbayy

    islandbayy Active Member

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    Took about a day.

    The 60kw is working out just fine. Does everything I need, but after having 2 P85 loaners, just the additional range without worrying about a stop to get a extra 20 miles here and their made all the difference, that and 3 close calls I've had thus far.
    My mind might be changed after the Milwaukee, Chicago and Madison superchargers are installed, though, in the mean time, without CHAdeMo adapter, it ocasionally gets nerve racking as I do A LOT of driving.
    Originally went with the 60, as it would have been a tight financial squeeze to afford the 85. Also, my stance is, I rarely make a purchase that doesnt either "pay for itself" or "make me money".
    I have recently moved my Model S from the "paying for itself" category (My car payments were less then what I was spending on Gas before), to the "making me money" category, and can now afford the larger battery (and larger battery means it would be able to make me MORE money :)
     
  9. SFOTurtle

    SFOTurtle Active Member

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    I assume that you mean that the hardware and software issues mentioned in the original post get resolved and it becomes possible to swap an 85 batter in place of a 60 battery? Said another way, until Tesla figures out these issues, then this splash dance about swapping is just for talk and show.
     
  10. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    What I mean is that once a swapper is actually online and available for owner use, they will necessarily have an official answer to "so I have a 60 and I come by the swapping station..." before an owner actually tries it with a 60.
     
  11. CapitalistOppressor

    CapitalistOppressor Active Member

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    Yes, once a swap station goes live there will necessarily be an answer to all of these issues.

    It will certainly require new software, and probably a new version of the 85kWh battery that includes a controller capable of talking to a 60kWh car.

    The visible connections themselves are likely the same, because we know they were designed for swapping. And we know the hardware on the 60kWh cars is not going to change. So the hardware changes (if any) are inside of the battery, and it's patently obvious that there would need to be a comprehensive set of new device drivers installed as well.

    I expect a new software update when swap stations go live that will implement controller profiles that can be switched when you swap the battery.

    And if the batteries themselves require a new physical controller, those will go into production at the same time. So the solution to the OP is going to effectively become available as soon as swap stations go live, at which point the OP can probably arrange a switch at a service center even if a swap station is not available.
     
  12. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    My guess is both profiles are already configured inside the car, and an 85 pack would signal the car that it's installed and ready for action and the car would load the 85 configuration. I'd think not much is involved, higher current setting, and larger capacity, probably same voltage.
     
  13. SFOTurtle

    SFOTurtle Active Member

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    Any predictions whether we see the glamorized swapping stations any time in 2014? Any intel at all on when this (and by this I include not only swapping stations being rolled out but also option to swap from a 60 to 85 pack) might happen?

    It's been how many months now since the splashy disco video and no information from the company about the rollout? Maybe they'll get a question or two about that in the upcoming earnings call.
     
  14. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    I now know this is wrong, they use different voltage, so the change may be a bit more complex. They'd have to reset the DC/DC converter to operate from a different input voltage, which might happen automatically and not be a problem, and the inverter and charger would have to be switched to operate at different voltages, which may also not be anything more than changing some settings in software.
     
  15. Sacrament055

    Sacrament055 Member

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    Seems like they could just have the 85 battery pack operate like a 60 in terms of power output so if the 60 uses less and we know Tesla is able to control the power going to and from the battery pack. No increase in performance for 60 owners but you would get the extra range (I'd be ok with that)
     
  16. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Active Member

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    I don't believe Tesla's swapping demonstration was ever intended to lead to real swapping infrastructure. In fact, the reason Tesla did the demo at all was in order to receive ZEV credits. A lot of ZEV credits were tied to demonstrating the technology without needing to actually build it. I understand that Tesla will be building a single swapping station somewhere in LA, but that it's not going any further than that. It's lip service to make the demo look like it wasn't just done for ZEV credits. At some point Tesla will announce that swapping doesn't make sense and it will get buried.

    I really would not hold out any hope for this. None.
     
  17. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

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    Yes, it would at minimum need to have new firmware for an 85kwh car.
     
  18. notailpipe2112

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    Depending on the total price to upgrade/perma-swap to an 85 battery, I will also be doing it. Either that or I wait until they announce in 2 years that we can swap for a 100 or 120 battery. That would be over the top I tell ya, as I'd never have to answer questions from anyone about range ever again. 600-800 KM of range...I'm ready for it.
     
  19. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    Might not be a new firmware, plugging in the 85 pack might just signal the car to load a different software profile which is already programmed in the car. Or the systems might just be able to operate on diffrerent voltages by default. I know with my car the DC/DC converter can operate from 90-250V with no changes, it just automatically adjusts, and the inverter and motor can also operate within a range from between 90-130V without any software changes.
     
  20. jandkw

    jandkw Member

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    I am with you, notailpipe2112, I have the S60 and if I want to upgrade I'll wait for 2-3 years for the 100KW or 120KW and I assume at such time the demand and technology improvement will push down the pricing. I look at the superchargers built in my region on the east coast, for example, from my house to Richmond, VA SC is 180+ miles and I am not sure I'll make it there with my S60 during the winter. I think 400-500 miles battery is going to be a reality in a few years and hope Tesla can support and offer to the customers.
     

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