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7.0 in Australia

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Is it me or am I noticing a distinct lag in app/function response on 19"since Autopilot rollout. Several times Ive seen what I thought was a freeze on app changes and map updating that was just a very slow response. Anybody else? I cant say the autopilot function appears to be effected but i wonder about CPU capacity?
 
Is it me or am I noticing a distinct lag in app/function response on 19"since Autopilot rollout. Several times Ive seen what I thought was a freeze on app changes and map updating that was just a very slow response. Anybody else? I cant say the autopilot function appears to be effected but i wonder about CPU capacity?


I noticed that too so I performed a reboot (hold down both scroll wheels for couple o'secs)

solves a multitude of things that... I reckon you should be able to schedule a reboot every night or something
 
Which other car company comes out to your garage at 6AM on Sunday to install major new functionality in your car?

(not a personal jab at the OP, just an appropriate quote)

Which other car company comes out to your garage at 6am on Sunday to REMOVE major new functionality in your car?

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...opilot-in-hk-just-happened-very-disappointing

TLDR; Hong Kong Autopilot cars have had AutoSteer and AutoLaneChange turned off *without the consent of the owners*.

Don't miss the forest for the trees with this one. The big picture here is not that Tesla *has* done this, but that Tesla *CAN* do this and that they can do this without us expressly consenting to it.
 
But that's really off topic
I beg to differ.

If this is indeed true, then firmware 7.0 (the TOPIC of this thread) can have AutoSteer disabled WITHOUT our consent and WITHOUT active intervention on our part. To the best of my knowledge, the only other time Tesla took something away (suspension lowering at speed) they required a firmware upgrade to be consented to so you could effectively "opt out", so they have potentially added a very undesirable stealth update mechanism to their car.

What else can they decide to take away from the cars that we *own* without us consenting?

I'd suggest the only way for us to block this sort of forced downgrade would be to disable 3G, which of course has hugely undesirable consequences for the car's functionality.

Scaremongering? I hope that's all this is.
"First they came for the HK Teslas and we said nothing". "Then they came for the Australian Teslas and there was no one left to speak up".
 
I beg to differ.

If this is indeed true, then firmware 7.0 (the TOPIC of this thread) can have AutoSteer disabled WITHOUT our consent and WITHOUT active intervention on our part. To the best of my knowledge, the only other time Tesla took something away (suspension lowering at speed) they required a firmware upgrade to be consented to so you could effectively "opt out", so they have potentially added a very undesirable stealth update mechanism to their car.

What else can they decide to take away from the cars that we *own* without us consenting?'

I'd suggest the only way for us to block this sort of forced downgrade would be to disable 3G, which of course has hugely undesirable consequences for the car's functionality.

Scaremongering? I hope that's all this is.
"First they came for the HK Teslas and we said nothing". "Then they came for the Australian Teslas and there was no one left to speak up".

Sorry mate really don't understand your point here. Frankly all I can see is some over emphasised click bate post in the vein of " Big bad Tesla is gonna take stuff from you WITHOUT your consent" which is a gross distortion of what is really going on.
Every manufacturer will tell you that one of the major constraints to partially and fully autonomous vehicles will be negotiating with local law makers, this is what appears to be happening in Hong Kong. Reading the post on the HK forum indicates that Tesla is being upfront with owners and going through a process with the HK authorities. I would imagine taking away Autopilot from owners is probably the last thing Tesla wants to do but that's just my opinion and neither of know the exact situation going on here. Frankly post of this type are starting to become tiring.
 
Sorry mate really don't understand your point here. Frankly all I can see is some over emphasised click bate post in the vein of " Big bad Tesla is gonna take stuff from you WITHOUT your consent" which is a gross distortion of what is really going on.
Every manufacturer will tell you that one of the major constraints to partially and fully autonomous vehicles will be negotiating with local law makers, this is what appears to be happening in Hong Kong. Reading the post on the HK forum indicates that Tesla is being upfront with owners and going through a process with the HK authorities. I would imagine taking away Autopilot from owners is probably the last thing Tesla wants to do but that's just my opinion and neither of know the exact situation going on here. Frankly post of this type are starting to become tiring.

+1... well said.

Let's not forget how innovative it is just getting new features and improvements this way is. BMW want thousands from me just to update the maps in my X3's GPS! I have no problem with Tesla's approach, in fact I applaud it.
 
+1 more

It is difficult to imagine loving the car and all that it is made up of, and at the same time hating the company, the staff and the CEO

Reminds me of 10 years ago when stock chat boards were all the rage. Most of the comments were anti company, anti CEO and non-productive. And ultimately ignored by all (having personally been the CEO of a public company at the time).

Since the position of MrAustralianTax is that the company will be bankrupt and gone within ten years, why not sell your car before it looses value, SHORT the company stock ....and you'll make at least $1/4 million, perhaps more with some leverage. In the mean time, I have and will continue to buy shares in Tesla. A great car, a great company, and a CEO with real vision. I am ecstatic to have had an opportunity to buy a model S, and plan to add a model 3 to the family when available.
 
I beg to differ.

If this is indeed true, then firmware 7.0 (the TOPIC of this thread) can have AutoSteer disabled WITHOUT our consent and WITHOUT active intervention on our part. To the best of my knowledge, the only other time Tesla took something away (suspension lowering at speed) they required a firmware upgrade to be consented to so you could effectively "opt out", so they have potentially added a very undesirable stealth update mechanism to their car.

What else can they decide to take away from the cars that we *own* without us consenting?

I'd suggest the only way for us to block this sort of forced downgrade would be to disable 3G, which of course has hugely undesirable consequences for the car's functionality.

Scaremongering? I hope that's all this is.
"First they came for the HK Teslas and we said nothing". "Then they came for the Australian Teslas and there was no one left to speak up".
My understanding is that Tesla are 'taking it away' without consent because the feature isn't legal in Hong Kong rather than it being some Tesla executive whim.
What action do you think Tesla should have taken in this case?
 
What action do you think Tesla should have taken in this case?
1. Not advertised AutoPilot worldwide as existing for a year before it did, so people buying the car expected AutoPilot
2. Not prematurely announced worldwide release of AutoPilot before it was actually ready to push out worldwide, so people expected AutoPilot outside of the US and it didn't arrive.
3. Not prematurely announced they had regulatory approval if they didn't, essentially forcing them to push the update worldwide or risk annoying non US owners even further.

But most importantly and far more crucially, they have now shown they have the ability to unilaterally modify our 7.0 car without our permission. *That* bothers me a lot. That's a lot of control Tesla has over something that we have paid good money for. What other features of OUR cars can they take away? Do we own our cars or have we merely licensed them in the eyes of Tesla?


Couple of disclaimers before I stray too far off topic:
1. I DON'T own TSLA shares. I have no intention of owning TSLA shares either long or short. I do trade futures and handsomely profit when shorting FWIW, but shorting individual shares is a mug's game which is why so much jawboning occurs.
1a. I DO own a P85D. It's fantastic.
2. If TSLA becomes bankrupt that will be sad as I will then own an unrepairable car which will progressively degrade its features since Tesla don't make their service manuals available outside of Massachusetts. I don't want them to go bankrupt but I'm realistic to know that a company can't run on negative cash flow forever before the money supply gets turned off.
3. Tesla will never go bankrupt? It's a software company that sells some proprietary hardware to run its software. How's VisiCalc? How's Lotus? Both were innovative in the spreadsheet field and both are long gone. I'm sure they were too famous to fail, too.
4. I am not a fanboi of Tesla. Tesla have done many things very well, but they have done many things very badly, too, and it is reasonable to criticise them for it.

I won't rant any more on this lest this post get moved to Snippiness, but just one last thought: Imagine the indignant outcry on TMC if they revoked AutoSteer in the US rather than HK...
 
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If the biggest gripe you have with them is overly optimistic timelines that are announced by Elon then they must be doing OK. perhaps you could validly criticise them for rolling out Autosteer in HK before it was legal, not removing it once they discovered that it wasn't. What's the alternative to removing it in this instance, the HK Government banning Teslas from the road until the issue is resolved?
Your concerns about profitability are valid, the company has to make a profit soon but again, what is the alternative, expand more conservatively and lose their first mover advantage? Its a gamble to do it this way, the outcome is unfortunately more certain to expand conservatively.
 
But most importantly and far more crucially, they have now shown they have the ability to unilaterally modify our 7.0 car without our permission. *That* bothers me a lot. That's a lot of control Tesla has over something that we have paid good money for. What other features of OUR cars can they take away? Do we own our cars or have we merely licensed them in the eyes of Tesla?
Do you own any iToys?
or for that matter Android junk?
 
My understanding is that Tesla are 'taking it away' without consent because the feature isn't legal in Hong Kong rather than it being some Tesla executive whim.
What action do you think Tesla should have taken in this case?

Not to mention the fact that if it were any other car company and the local regulators decided a feature on it was illegal they'd have to recall and rectify, with all the attendant inconvenience. And you'd never get it back if the legislation changed, either.
 
Like most arguments there are elements of truth on BOTH sides of the fence. MRAUSTRALIANTAX has some valid observations as do you AussieYank my 'read' on it overview is this: No company can run at a cashflow loss- period irrespective of what zealots would have you believe. Does that confirm the companys demise- I see no way to connect these two facts. The fact that a BETA has been suspended in HKK I would not classify as a withdrawal of equity in the purchase of the product. Its promotion engine has dutifully demonstrated a BETA and made no secret about it. I for one cannot criticize the QUALITY and RELIABILITY of the product Ive purchased. It has performed for nearly 34,000Kms exactly as promised. So I ask the question what EXACTLY does one expect from a revolutionary approach to motoring with an admittedly very different CEO approach to customer relations. Its refreshing at times and surprisingly naive at others. Like both of you I trade and teach trading in stock commodities currencies etc and I too don't own any TLS stock with the best reason- emotional attachment. As a mercenary I would trade the stock not the reputation without regard to who or what drives it unless I have emotional involvement. A quiet valid debate and worthy of expression. Luckily there are some thinkers in our midst.:biggrin:
 
Do you own any iToys?
or for that matter Android junk?
I own no Apple products. I value my privacy and my right to tinker too much to own any despite their many advantages over the competition.
I have one Android device which has only wireless connectivity. It runs one app only and I use it for nothing else.

(Yes, I wear a "tin foil hat".)

( Note to mod: time to split this discussion into a new thread I think, so I've created:
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...esla-revoking-AutoSteer?p=1244403#post1244403 )
 
The Hong Kong controversy:

I see no issue with Tesla either disabling the Hong Kong Cars or with Tesla being able to disable the Hong Kong cars.

The disabling of the cars was a requirement of the local law. The law can always impinge on a person's rights or privileges unilaterally. It is not as if Tesla had a choice in the matter. The law-makers are the ones with the choice. The subjects of the law can hardly blame Tesla.

There is also no issue with Tesla being able to disable the Hong Kong cars, effective immediately, without consent. Short of that, driving the car on the road would therefore be illegal. Perhaps even possession of the car could be illegal. Would not like some Hong Kong cop to start flexing Chinese muscle for being in possession of an unlawful device when Tesla can disable it (not to mention the fact that Tesla is required by the local law to disable it).

It should also be noted though that it appears for all intents and purposes that the lack of permission seems temporary at this stage. Tesla appears optimistic and there does not appear to be any reason to doubt that. Once permission is received, they will no doubt switch it on again.

My greatest fear was that the Aussie authorities were not going to be happy with it and that they would have ordered Tesla to switch it off here too. I hate living in a nanny state at the best of times. But then I would make it lawful to use a mobile phone whilst driving at speeds under 40k (for a transition period anyway whilst requiring all new cars to have bluetooth.) I would also allow internet on the Aussie roads - I mean we allow magazines, books and newspapers in the car. If a driver is going to act responsibly in not reading them whilst driving, why not the internet as well? But surely the passenger should be allowed to surf the net - no harm there...

But I digress... In the Hong Kong situation, I believe Tesla is acting responsibly both to the law-makers and their customers.
 
I don't think anyone has to worry about Tesla failing. If the situation became dire, I would expect Apple or Google to buy the company. The Model S has nice margins. The energy market appears to be even bigger than the car market. Cash flow is negative because of all of the R&D and expansion which is something both Apple and Google would be comfortable with. Personally, I think Tesla will make it. People will keep putting money in because the upside potential is so huge.