7.0 Regen Reduced? Smoother? Less "Aggressive"?

[Soolim]

I think smoother and more efficient is great, but I agree that now I need to use my brakes more which will wear them out quicker. If physically possible Tesla should up the max regen amount so I get more regen braking and make that a "Max" setting or something.

I repeat my earlier request for Tesla to provide 3 choices of regen settings: Low - Medium - High, and we can all be happy.:biggrin:

 

[BertL]

FWIW, I find it so interesting the concerns folks have about wearing out MS brakes (energy is another thing) if one attempts to drive allowing Regen to do most of the slowing of your MS. Perhaps brake usage is a little more now with the smoothness 7.0 seems to have implemented with regen, but personally, I have zero concern about that change going to have any significant impact wearing out the brakes of my MS as long as I own it, which is hopefully 5-8 years from now.

As with many of these discussions, I think the concern or POV all has to do with one's previous experience, especially from people that moved into a Tesla from only owning ICE vehicles before, without having an interim experience driving a hybrid. I drove Lexus Hybrids (RX400h & RX450h) for the past 10 years, where physical braking was by design part of the way you purposely caused regen to take place. In my limited MS experience, letting up on either of my former hybrid accelerators did less slowing my vehicle than even Regen=LOW does on my MS, so I definitely used the brakes more in my hybrids, than I was by the 2nd day driving my MS. I participated in the largest Lexus forum on a near daily basis for years, and I honestly can't think of any RXh owners that ever replaced their brakes or pads as long as they owned their hybrid. I'm sure people did with truly excessive mileage, but it was not the norm -- to the point brakes became one of the differentiation points we consistently used with potential owners wanting to know the benefits of the hybrid over the pure ICE model -- "no brake jobs" was a commonly cited benefit of the hybrid, and people on the forum didn't jump all over that as "prove it" or needing to add a bunch of qualifiers as we know some people live to do in our Social Media world these days. IMHO, if most former hybrid owners like me never had to replace their brakes while we owned our vehicles, I don't expect to with my MS as long as I own it, especially running Regen=STANDARD and the very minimal brake use that entails. ...just another perspective.

 

[islandbayy]

I'm going to paste my response from the Firmware 7 for Classic MS Thread, no sense re-typing it but I added a bit to it as well:

"Regen has been reduced in the firmware 7. I have a benchmark road I test it on.

Fully warmed pack, that is able to take the full regen power, if I remove foot immediately as I pass the 55mph speed limit sign while doing exactly 60, I will be doing 5mph as I approach the stop light. Thats how it was when I got my car (Firmware 4.2 and 4.5). as well as all the loaners I had back in 2013. NOW, however, in the same exact spot, where nothing else has changed, done exactly the same, I arrive at that stop light doing ~18mph in my Classic version car, and with EVERY autopilot loaner I've had, I've arrived at the light doing 25-30mph. My benchmark proves changes were made. I do not like it, I actually wanted STRONGER regen then what I had when I got my car. Not less."


My benchmark shows it's getting turned down. Like I say, no changes, sign is in same place, stop lights haven't gotten closer either.

 

[Soolim]

I'm going to paste my response from the Firmware 7 for Classic MS Thread, no sense re-typing it but I added a bit to it as well:

"Regen has been reduced in the firmware 7. I have a benchmark road I test it on.

Fully warmed pack, that is able to take the full regen power, if I remove foot immediately as I pass the 55mph speed limit sign while doing exactly 60, I will be doing 5mph as I approach the stop light. Thats how it was when I got my car (Firmware 4.2 and 4.5). as well as all the loaners I had back in 2013. NOW, however, in the same exact spot, where nothing else has changed, done exactly the same, I arrive at that stop light doing ~18mph in my Classic version car, and with EVERY autopilot loaner I've had, I've arrived at the light doing 25-30mph. My benchmark proves changes were made. I do not like it, I actually wanted STRONGER regen then what I had when I got my car. Not less."

+1 and This

 

[liuping]

There is a request for more regen options on the v7.1 votingpage. If you have not already done so and want a stronger option, please vote for it here: What is your top Misc. Feature/Bug Request? - brainstorming and voting | tricider

 

[Todd Burch]

What you described make sense to me except the part I quoted above. I thought "Try applying more aggressive foot movements during regen" mean remove my foot from the pedal. Why does move quicker (remove the foot from the pedal) not generate the maximum amount of regen? Unless the 0-100% regen (whatever that max kW regen might be) has been mapped to the 0-100% power for acceleration (whatever that max kW might be)? In other words, the amount of regen depends on how much you have been accelerating prior? I would appreciate your additional explanation.

If you remove your foot from the pedal, you'll get the same amount of regen as you did before. The max regen is not reduced from 6.2's values (still around 60 kW). Available regen power also has nothing to do with power use in the other direction. It only is dependent on state of charge and pack temperature.

What I was trying to say is that people are using their brakes more because their usual foot positions now produce less regen, and in order to get the same braking as before they need to pull their foot back more than they did with v6.2.

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I think smoother and more efficient is great, but I agree that now I need to use my brakes more which will wear them out quicker. If physically possible Tesla should up the max regen amount so I get more regen braking and make that a "Max" setting or something.

Re-read my post. You shouldn't be using your brakes any more than before.

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On my daily commute there are several places (intersections, stop signs, and speed limit changes) where I have visual cues as to where I disengage cruise control from a set point to come to a stop or slow down for the new zone, and it seems that I'm no longer slowing down quite as much.

Ah, but this is an entirely different animal. When you disengage from cruise, the S introduces regen at a slower rate than if you were driving normally with your foot and pulled your foot all the way back.

The reason is because people typically drive on cruise with their foot off the pedal, and disengaging would result in more abrupt deceleration than desired in most cases.

 

[liuping]

What I was trying to say is that people are using their brakes more because their usual foot positions now produce less regen, and in order to get the same braking as before they need to pull their foot back more than they did with v6.2.

That may be true for driving regen moderation, but I remove my foot entirely when approaching a stop, and it is not slowing me down as much as previously.

I could start regening earlier, but it's not practical to remove my foot before I'm even on the offramp, as I would start slowing while on the freeway.

 

[Todd Burch]

"Regen has been reduced in the firmware 7. I have a benchmark road I test it on.

Your test (assuming all other variables are equal) does not show that available regen has reduced--only that it "rolls on" at a slightly slower rate. The max regen power is still around 60 kW.

 

[Max*]

Your test (assuming all other variables are equal) does not show that available regen has reduced--only that it "rolls on" at a slightly slower rate. The max regen power is still around 60 kW.

Semantics. If you integrate over time (look at the area under the curve), the end result for kWh is reduced by looking at the same start time and stop time when you compare preV7 and postV7, resulting in "reduced regen".

 

[liuping]

Your test (assuming all other variables are equal) does not show that available regen has reduced--only that it "rolls on" at a slightly slower rate. The max regen power is still around 60 kW.

That is true, the peak regen power did not change (I believe that is a HW/battery limit).

However. if we are rolling longer as regen drops below 60kW, there is energy "left on the table", so to speak.

An option to recover more of that would be nice for those of us who want to get the most range. For people who like the smoother regen, they can leave their car set to standard. Everyone wins.

 

[scaesare]

Ah, but this is an entirely different animal. When you disengage from cruise, the S introduces regen at a slower rate than if you were driving normally with your foot and pulled your foot all the way back.

The reason is because people typically drive on cruise with their foot off the pedal, and disengaging would result in more abrupt deceleration than desired in most cases.

Disengaging cruise, or lifting my foot off the pedal has always had the exact same regen effect.

I've tested it from the same marker points. There's one section of my commute that, from 45MPH if I start full regen at a specific sign I come to a stop right at the pavement stripe at the stop sign. Doesn't matter if coming off cruise or manual driving.

Now with v7, i'm still doing just under 5MPH at that stop sign....

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Semantics. If you integrate over time (look at the area under the curve), the end result for kWh is reduced by looking at the same start time and stop time when you compare preV7 and postV7, resulting in "reduced regen".

Indeed.

I, for one, am not claiming peak regen has decreased. The meter still shows ~60KWh for me.

It would seem that the swept area under the curve has decreased, however.

 

[ReddyLeaf]

Just for grins and giggles, everyone should go out and test drive a 2011 Leaf this winter and see how the <10 KW regen compares, especially below 35 F. Every time I switch between the cars I have to adjust when I start slowing down. Personally, I like the new regen mapping, it's not as abrupt, and it still gets to 60 KW. Before, I was having to "learn" how to come out of cruise control (pressure on the accelerator) without snapping neck and putting my head on the steering wheel.

 

[Max*]

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind the new regen, I barely noticed it, and thought I might be crazy until the threads here started popping up. But there is a difference, and the overall regen amount is slightly reduced, even if the peak is the same.

 

[Cyclone]

Disengaging cruise, or lifting my foot off the pedal has always had the exact same regen effect.

This has not been my experience with AutoPilot cars and in my own car, I disengage cruise too soon to test the theory out (by the off ramp, I'm foot control, not cruise). I will have to play around with it on my classic, but on the AP cars, I definitely notice disengaging cruise having a much elongated ramp up in regen than if I was driving and suddenly completely took my foot off the go-pedal.

 

[jerry33]

As far as I can tell, there is no difference in regen with v7 (Classic).

 

[Cyclone]

This has not been my experience with AutoPilot cars and in my own car, I disengage cruise too soon to test the theory out (by the off ramp, I'm foot control, not cruise). I will have to play around with it on my classic, but on the AP cars, I definitely notice disengaging cruise having a much elongated ramp up in regen than if I was driving and suddenly completely took my foot off the go-pedal.

This is definitively a difference between my 6.2/2.5.71 classic and the 7.0/2.7.85 AP loaner I had last week. When disengaging cruise, my regen kicks in within half a second and ramps up to 60 kW almost instantly. The AP loaner I could count to "two-Mississippi" before it kicks in and even then, it has a much more gradual ramp up.

This weekend I have a road trip with two other classic owners who are on 7.0. I can see if their cars behave differently than mine.

 

[roblab]

I repeat my earlier request for Tesla to provide 3 choices of regen settings: Low - Medium - High, and we can all be happy.:biggrin:

Second the motion! This is what we get from a bunch of people just out of automatic transmissions who had forever used their brakes up by 50,000 miles: "Makes my neck snap". "Too strong, My passengers all end up in the front seat every time I take my foot off the brake".

Well, I used to laugh. Now I'm ticked. Sure, the regen gets up to 60 kW, but it takes it many feet before it gets there, and the car takes yards more to slow down.

I don't understand why we can't have several "mappings" allowed, on this car that has choices between three different types of steering wheel stiffness. Give me "Aggressive", "Standard", and "Weak", if you would, and let us choose. I always liked the way it came off regen in the beginning. With that, all those with a weak neck and a weak heart can be comfortable. Personally, I want aggressive back.

 

[Soolim]

Just for grins and giggles, everyone should go out and test drive a 2011 Leaf this winter and see how the <10 KW regen compares, especially below 35 F. Every time I switch between the cars I have to adjust when I start slowing down. Personally, I like the new regen mapping, it's not as abrupt, and it still gets to 60 KW. Before, I was having to "learn" how to come out of cruise control (pressure on the accelerator) without snapping neck and putting my head on the steering wheel.

Once you've driven MS, you don't want to drive any other car.:biggrin: Give us 3 choices for regen: Low - Medium - High, we can select what we want, especially for winter driving.

 

[Todd Burch]

Semantics. If you integrate over time (look at the area under the curve), the end result for kWh is reduced by looking at the same start time and stop time when you compare preV7 and postV7, resulting in "reduced regen".

I'm addressing the comment that regen efficiency and/or regen power has changed. It has not.

You are correct in that energy is reduced *if you regen the same way/for the same amount of time*. But the total area under the curve (the energy available to regen) is the same in both cases if you start regenning early enough.

My entire point was that if you begin to regen a little earlier (perhaps increase your following distance, which is a good idea anyway), you won't need to brake any more than before.

 

[Soolim]

You are correct in that energy is reduced *if you regen the same way/for the same amount of time*. But the total area under the curve (the energy available to regen) is the same in both cases if you start regenning early enough.

My entire point was that if you begin to regen a little earlier (perhaps increase your following distance, which is a good idea anyway), you won't need to brake any more than before.

Some don't want or not practical to begin regen earlier.