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7.1 > 8.0? Seems like an update for Tesla's legal team, and a net loss for customers.

u00mem9

Member
Jun 8, 2016
943
1,290
USA
I'm considering sticking with 7.1 until the dust settles on 8.0. As far as I can see, most of the updates are to reduce Tesla's liability. The new nag function is detailed on Electrek.co:

"Here’s a comprehensive breakdown:

  • Below 45 mph
    • ‘Hold Steering Wheel’ alert after 5 minutes on a straight road.
    • If there are curves on the road, the system accounts for lateral acceleration so refer to over 45 mph.
  • Over 45 mph
    • ‘Hold Steering Wheel’ alert after 1 minute if no vehicle to follow.
    • ‘Hold Steering Wheel’ alert after 3 minutes if you are tracking a car in front
If you ignore 3 alerts within an hour, the Autosteer feature will be disabled for the remainder of the drive – meaning you will have to put the car on park before being able to enable it again."



The "improvements" I see mostly relate to safety / liability concerns at a cost to daily use:
- protection against leaving your child / daughter in a hot car (sorry, but meh.)
- improved use of radar to identify stationary objects (but no improvement to camera recognition of lane marker, the primary weakness)
- basically requiring the hands on the wheel (reminder every 60 sec? really? functionally WAY below what I have now)
-minor UI and media player updates (wasted time that could have been spent on CarPlay implementation)

If I had a car on order right now, that is going to have 8.0 when it arrives, I would be a little upset (a lot?) that it's going to offer much less convenience than the vehicle I test drove before ordering.

Thought? Anyone else hanging onto 7.1 for now.
 

tomas

Out of warranty...
Supporting Member
Oct 22, 2012
4,307
4,198
Santa Barbara/New York
I'm considering sticking with 7.1 until the dust settles on 8.0. As far as I can see, most of the updates are to reduce Tesla's liability. The new nag function is detailed on Electrek.co:

"Here’s a comprehensive breakdown:

  • Below 45 mph
    • ‘Hold Steering Wheel’ alert after 5 minutes on a straight road.
    • If there are curves on the road, the system accounts for lateral acceleration so refer to over 45 mph.
  • Over 45 mph
    • ‘Hold Steering Wheel’ alert after 1 minute if no vehicle to follow.
    • ‘Hold Steering Wheel’ alert after 3 minutes if you are tracking a car in front
If you ignore 3 alerts within an hour, the Autosteer feature will be disabled for the remainder of the drive – meaning you will have to put the car on park before being able to enable it again."



The "improvements" I see mostly relate to safety / liability concerns at a cost to daily use:
- protection against leaving your child / daughter in a hot car (sorry, but meh.)
- improved use of radar to identify stationary objects (but no improvement to camera recognition of lane marker, the primary weakness)
- basically requiring the hands on the wheel (reminder every 60 sec? really? functionally WAY below what I have now)
-minor UI and media player updates (wasted time that could have been spent on CarPlay implementation)

If I had a car on order right now, that is going to have 8.0 when it arrives, I would be a little upset (a lot?) that it's going to offer much less convenience than the vehicle I test drove before ordering.

Thought? Anyone else hanging onto 7.1 for now.
When you are days from getting actual reports on 8.0, why are you getting wound up by rumors and leaks which can be wrong or incomplete?
 

u00mem9

Member
Jun 8, 2016
943
1,290
USA
When you are days from getting actual reports on 8.0, why are you getting wound up by rumors and leaks which can be wrong or incomplete?

1) That is a rather detailed explanation from Electrek and does not appear to be a rumor.
2) Since there is no way to go back to 7.1 once 8.0 is installed, a little planning is required.

But as I said, I am waiting for more info...and the point of the thread is to understand if I am an island, or other owners are thinking similarly.
 

Saghost

Well-Known Member
Oct 9, 2013
8,224
7,088
Delaware
1) That is a rather detailed explanation from Electrek and does not appear to be a rumor.
2) Since there is no way to go back to 7.1 once 8.0 is installed, a little planning is required.

But as I said, I am waiting for more info...and the point of the thread is to understand if I am an island, or other owners are thinking similarly.

That detailed explanation from electrek is a verbatim summary of what Elon said in the blog q&a last week, and doesn't appear to contain any new information based on running an actual car.
 

tomas

Out of warranty...
Supporting Member
Oct 22, 2012
4,307
4,198
Santa Barbara/New York
1) That is a rather detailed explanation from Electrek and does not appear to be a rumor.
2) Since there is no way to go back to 7.1 once 8.0 is installed, a little planning is required.

But as I said, I am waiting for more info...and the point of the thread is to understand if I am an island, or other owners are thinking similarly.
If you go to the tesla site right now there are release notes and screen shots
 

u00mem9

Member
Jun 8, 2016
943
1,290
USA
Thanks for the heads up on the Tesla site, but it still looks like some minor media player improvements with a significant loss of autopilot capability.

In fact, I usually rest my hand on the bottom of the wheel. This is often not detected by the car, since I am not providing any reaction torque. If I do hold on rigidly to the wheel, the system actually does a worse job of smoothly steering. There is added overshoot, because (of course) there is now an additional and less predictable torque generator in the system (me). It works, but not as well, as has been discussed in a number of other threads.
 
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WannabeOwner

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2015
5,758
2,928
Suffolk, UK
improved use of radar to identify stationary objects

plus it can now identify the car TWO cars in front of you (and possibly use AEB if that car slows down suddenly, and the car in front of you has not, yet, started to slow).

basically requiring the hands on the wheel

I'm only speaking for myself, but if you are driving towards me I want you to have your hands on the wheel, not on your lap etc. just because you are assuming you could get them to the wheel in the time ... I also don't want another driver near me to be distracted (texting / watching movie etc.) on AP, but of course that is not the same Data Set as all "hands not on wheel" drivers.

I think hands-off-wheel etc. is something for future Fully Autonomous vehicles. Of course the Hype / Launch of AP did imply that hands-off was fine, indeed some inferred it meant "on-ramp to off-ramp" autonomous, so there is a reduction in expectation. My view is that needs to be redressed so that those folk are not putting other road users at risk, but I don't know what the correct remedy for that is.
 

WannabeOwner

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2015
5,758
2,928
Suffolk, UK
This is often not detected by the car

I dunno if it is of any use to anyone, but I never get the hands-on-wheel-nag. I drive with one hand on the wheel, usually at the 2 or 4~5 position (or same, other side of wheel) and my guess is that that provides some downward weight and therefore enough rotational torque.

Clearly the hands-are-on-wheel needs to work perfectly for all drivers.
 

ecarfan

Well-Known Member
Sep 21, 2013
19,395
14,407
West Vancouver, British Columbia
it still looks like some minor media player improvements with a significant loss of autopilot capability.
The improvements look pretty major to me, in multiple areas, and no "loss" of any capabilities that I can see. If you want to complain about a company that continually improves its vehicles even years after they were sold, at no cost to its customers, that's your choice but I think your attitude is counterproductive and pointless.
 

sandpiper

Active Member
Sep 25, 2014
2,833
2,322
Ontario, Canada
I will wait until I get it to pass judgement - but I WILL install it. Lots of great improvement.

I also keep my hands on the wheel like you are supposed to... What's the big deal?

Well..... not everybody does EXACTLY as they're supposed to. For one, I have been known to exceed the speed limit by 1 or 2 km/h on rare occasion. And, once or twice, I have not done a great job of rinsing my recyclable containers before putting them in the blue box. And even worse, I've not always read the entire set of Apple terms and conditions before agreeing, despite the fact that they demand that I do so.

Yes I know... I'm a bad person.
 
Last edited:

msnow

Active Member
Jul 14, 2015
4,951
2,394
SoCal
I dunno if it is of any use to anyone, but I never get the hands-on-wheel-nag. I drive with one hand on the wheel, usually at the 2 or 4~5 position (or same, other side of wheel) and my guess is that that provides some downward weight and therefore enough rotational torque.

Clearly the hands-are-on-wheel needs to work perfectly for all drivers.
Same here. I rest an elbow on either armrest and wrap a couple fingers and thumb around it and NEVER get a nag. Maybe there's a few cars that need to have the Service Center adjust a setting because you don't need to fight it as is mentioned by a few people.
 

tomas

Out of warranty...
Supporting Member
Oct 22, 2012
4,307
4,198
Santa Barbara/New York
The improvements look pretty major to me, in multiple areas, and no "loss" of any capabilities that I can see. If you want to complain about a company that continually improves its vehicles even years after they were sold, at no cost to its customers, that's your choice but I think your attitude is counterproductive and pointless.
Sigh... we are in an era where it has become acceptable in both social and tv media to maintain an opinion in an area where there is countervaling fact. See climate change.

Fact: this is a significant update. You are allowed an opinion about whether you like it, but not whether it is major.
 

Neuromancer

Member
May 20, 2016
93
215
Tennessee
Is it confirmed that AP will nag at mandatory intervals? When I am driving at anything over about 10 mph, or in any unknown area at any speed, my hands are on the wheel. When in bumper to bumper 5 mph traffic for 90 minutes a day each way on a straight freeway I know well (yes, that's my daily commute, no, I'm not quitting or moving) I don't. A nag every 5 minutes would be disappointing.
 
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Chopr147

Active Member
Apr 3, 2016
1,940
1,470
Wantagh, NY
No problem here with the nags. I don't ignore them and no-one else should either.
As far as the liability is concerned we may not like it but this is the world we live in today. A truck fails to yield to oncoming traffic , driver may have been watching a movie so does not see it and Tesla still gets sued. So companies have to protect themselves, nevermind tesla working towards full autonomy and needs NHTA support. I just watched a Youtube video yesterday of a prank involving Model S
At 1:10 he goes right thru a red light in AP. If he gets T-boned there we have another AP headline blaming Tesla.
People like this are NOT helping our march to autonomy
 

u00mem9

Member
Jun 8, 2016
943
1,290
USA
It seems like you can't have it both ways. If it was OK for Tesla to release 7.1, it can't suddenly be reckless and dangerous to use it.

They had a liability problem. Many on this site like to say "the driver is always responsible", which is nice and might have prevailed most of the time in court. But they were going to get to spend lots of days in the courtroom and lots of $ preparing. That was THEIR problem, which they accepted when they decided to release the system.

Now, they would like to change their mind, and just like Google concluded, they now think people should keep hands on the wheel and eyes on the road, so that Tesla can sleep better at night with their existing legal team...which is likely on par with their PR team. (hint, hint)

They have plenty of inside info and more data than us...but from here it looks like the original intent at 7.0 is now considered not presently possible. So they would like to offer a new system with less capability to drive without driver intervention, a LOT less financial risk to Tesla, and best of all: little thumbnails of the album cover to ensure owners install the new system.

Sounds crappy to me, and a company living up to the ambition of their Chief Tweet Creator probably should have made the system do what it was supposed to do (safely drive down the highway without running off the road or into other cars) instead of this regressive move.
 

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