I take issue with the latter. There have been certainly times (rare, but they've happened) when AP decided to take a bender without nagging me. Had I not had hands on the wheel, I could not have overridden quickly. AP does not always warn you with sufficient time to reengage manual control
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I take issue with the latter. There have been certainly times (rare, but they've happened) when AP decided to take a bender without nagging me. Had I not had hands on the wheel, I could not have overridden quickly. AP does not always warn you with sufficient time to reengage manual control
Having hands on the steering wheel makes your body and mind engaged more and reaction time is shorter compared to hands off driving. The faster you drive the more important it is.
Here's what EM said about it:
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The "no nags" went away with 7.0 and the update to 7.1. Since 7.1 you've always had to keep your hands on the wheel, that's why greene1 won't install 71. The big difference here is that if you ignore it you have to stop the car to re-engage. What's the big freekin deal? Is it to impress friends, live on the edge? I don't get it. You live in Ohio so your no threat to me, my family or most friends but if you did I'd prefer you post signs on your Tesla warning them of the danger you are to them. It's only fair.I guess it's "no loss of any capabilities" to you, since you don't actually have Autopilot.
Gizmotoy
Active Member
Is this an "always on" thing, or does it have to be enabled? One may waste your battery for nothing, the other requires about as much work as the existing mechanism (chances are you're not leaving your dog or kids alone in the car for hours, and the existing mechanism works for 30 minutes). Either way, using this feature and leaving a child or dog in the car is going to put you at high risk of having your windows smashed in by a passer-by.
If anything, this sounds more like a feature designed solely to grab headlines than an actual useful feature. In my opinion, anyway. And I have both kids and dogs.
Partially agree.
Truck anywhere near? Hands on wheel, warning or not.
Cresting a hill? Hands on wheel, warning or not.
Left and right lane markings not completely clear? Hands on wheel, warning or not.
Long curve? Hands on wheel, warning or not.
Driving in a straight line on clearly marked flat road in broad daylight with no cars around with the AP display corresponding to what is in front of me? Nag = tug and carry on.
What would have enhanced my and my fellow motorist's safety would have been clear instructions FROM TESLA on how and where AP fails BEFORE I figured it out for myself. (TMC videos of failures have been invaluable for this, too).
Training me to tug the wheel repetitively and mindlessly does not enhance my attention.
Tangentially quoting from a prior post - the TSA is very good at finding bottles of harmless water and terrible at finding actual threats for exactly the same reason.
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You take your eyes off the street for less than 2 seconds (the distance where you are capable of making a timely decision how to react to a hazard at 60 mph), and you can damage your car, kill a human, kill yourself, or kill a passenger.
This is not up to debate, it's a fact that's easy to prove. Have some in the passenger seat cover your eyes with a piece of cardboard for 2 seconds in traffic at 60 mph. It's longer than you think. If somebody blows the stop sign at a cross street or backs out of a driveway, you're a passenger, not a driver anymore. If you are watching, you can steer or brake or both. If you aren't even looking, you hit at virtually full speed with your head down to assist in the airbag breaking your neck.
I don't disagree with AP. I just know how people drive today. Too many drivers no longer pay attention forward. Just Monday, a young woman in an SUV nearly nailed me at 50 mph while I was riding a bicycle at 10 mph less than a foot from the curb. She drifted to the right, and tagged my arm. I looked and saw she her head was pointed down. I followed her accidently and saw her pull into a gas station, and she was still looking down texting. I politely told her that she should not be driving, that she was not qualified, nor does she have a clue how to do it. I mentioned that it would be fitting if another texter killed a family member of hers, and then she continued to text after that. I said I have little doubt that the death of loved one would not improve your driving since you don't know how to drive anyhow. All in a calm voice. So what if she was crying? I don't care. The laws won't stop them because the PD won't bother with it. If she doesn't want a stranger to scold her, she should not act like a homicidal manic in a SUV.
This is not up to debate, it's a fact that's easy to prove. Have some in the passenger seat cover your eyes with a piece of cardboard for 2 seconds in traffic at 60 mph. It's longer than you think. If somebody blows the stop sign at a cross street or backs out of a driveway, you're a passenger, not a driver anymore. If you are watching, you can steer or brake or both. If you aren't even looking, you hit at virtually full speed with your head down to assist in the airbag breaking your neck.
I don't disagree with AP. I just know how people drive today. Too many drivers no longer pay attention forward. Just Monday, a young woman in an SUV nearly nailed me at 50 mph while I was riding a bicycle at 10 mph less than a foot from the curb. She drifted to the right, and tagged my arm. I looked and saw she her head was pointed down. I followed her accidently and saw her pull into a gas station, and she was still looking down texting. I politely told her that she should not be driving, that she was not qualified, nor does she have a clue how to do it. I mentioned that it would be fitting if another texter killed a family member of hers, and then she continued to text after that. I said I have little doubt that the death of loved one would not improve your driving since you don't know how to drive anyhow. All in a calm voice. So what if she was crying? I don't care. The laws won't stop them because the PD won't bother with it. If she doesn't want a stranger to scold her, she should not act like a homicidal manic in a SUV.
They say it is an option that is enabled by default. So you can turn it off if you don't want it to do that.
THIS!!!
The update hasn't improved safety. Don't worry, I'm already looking out for #1. The times when the system is a real threat to everyone involved is when it randomly rips in a steering input in the middle of the freeway because of some random tar patch or shadow. NOTHING about me tugging the wheel every minute solves that. If Tesla's attitude is 'sometimes it does that, so steer with it 100% of the time, and everything will be fine', then the system's capability has been grossly misrepresented.
The update is for Tesla's liability.
I hadn't thought about that... I figured it was just a limitation in the current vision system. I find Autopilot to work almost flawlessly in interstates; where I notice the problem (having to stop car from going out of lane, which cancel Autopilot) is on curvy roads, especially with hills; my understanding is that Autopilot is not recommended for use on such roads anyway, so I have not made an issue of it. I am going to be testing how the updated (v8) system works on these same roads as soon as I have the update.
I agree. This is a, retrospectively obvious, but brilliant idea. Every summer you have at least one horrible news story about some distracted guy who went directly to work instead of dropping their young kid (sleeping in their car seat) at daycare, resulting in the kid dying over the course of the day sitting in the hot car. If all cars had this, lives would be saved.
RogerHScott
Active Member
That video is one of the most irresponsible things I've seen in a long time. Tesla should reserve the right to (permanently) disable
autopilot for any idiot pulling stunts like this. On a much lesser note, I noticed he also never puts the car in park before people get
in (thus the bonk-bonk-bonk noise).
Having read the entire thread I have tried to focus on the actual changes. From screenshots I suspect the audio, nav and climate control (the sun compensation excites me, ditto the 'hot car') will probably be more immediately relevant to me, but the Radar fleet learning will have 'thick data' features for routes heavily used by Teslas and that should end out being of great benefit within a few months time.
Sadly, I will not be near my car for a few weeks time so I will not immediately know. I hope other people report in the meantime so I can vicariously experience the changes.
Sadly, I will not be near my car for a few weeks time so I will not immediately know. I hope other people report in the meantime so I can vicariously experience the changes.
RogerHScott
Active Member
Only those who are foolish (anywhere) and law-breaking (in many jurisdictions). Don't leave kids or pets in the car. Period.
The value I see in this new feature is if you're parking your car for a week at the Phoenix airport you can keep it from hitting 160
inside every afternoon and cooking all of the plastics and woods.
Whether the parent/pet owner is foolish or law-breaking doesn't matter to the victim.
Yes... I think we all agree that you must never do this. But there have been too many cases where somebody has done so accidentally in a way that's resulted in a child's death. My kids are older and so I will turn this off; no sense wasting juice. But if I had very young children I would leave this on.... absolutely.
Kudos to Tesla on this.
Chopr147
Active Member
He says he is a Lyft driver. #1 they should cancel him. #2 I agree on disabling AP temp. #3 He is driving in what looks to be very busy streets. Irresponsible !!
How did any horrific driver survive the past year? Answer: because accidents are actually pretty rare and fatal accidents are even rarer. We've all seen idiots who drift into other lanes or nearly sideswipe someone when they're changing lanes when there's a car there already. The other driver honking at them or swerving to avoid them doesn't make them safe drivers, even if they've never been in an accident.
RogerHScott
Active Member
My experience is in the middle. I do find myself responding: "I am holding the <insert optional expletive depending on mood,
other passengers, etc.> steering wheel!" more often than I'd like (which is, of course, never) but not super frequently.
I am a bit concerned that if all they did was increase the frequency of nagging but not also improve the accuracy of hands-on-wheel
sensing that this problem will go from minor annoyance to AP-spoiling. I've definitely also noticed the problem mentioned by some
that if I try to more "obviously" hold the wheel I start having to fight auto-steering, which isn't good for anybody.
It isn't a matter of being foolish. It's about how our brains are wired to do routine tasks without conscious input from us and how a confluence of a bunch of factors can coalesce into an incredibly tragic accident by short circuiting our brains. There are some excellent articles and studies available online about the phenomenon.
