70D and Winter Performance/Range

[Lex]

Agreed. Using your numbers you provided (thanks!) and others that have commented on TMC and Facebook group I have basically factored in the following as a worst case scenario:

Usable battery: 60kWh (~85% usable of the 70kWh battery pack)
Worst anticipated Wh/mi: 550 Wh/mi

Thus, the absolute worst range I am anticipating for a 70D is:

108 miles w/ 100% charge
87 miles w/ 80% charge

Questions in my logic above:

1. Is 550 Wh/mile to conservative for a worst case scenario?
2. Is 85% usable battery to conservative?

I am heading into my first winter and was looking forward to it but now you are making me anxious :biggrin: so far I am using at least 25% more power -- around 400 wh/mile if my math is right but I think I've seen it push up to 550 for a bit depending on cold soak, driving etc.

So far we are just a bit below freezing here, but I've had to adapt to the reduced regen etc. since around +10 C. Though now I get to see the <!> more on the power side for a bit.

I'm happy with the seat heater and especially the steering wheel heater, where has that been all my life. I am happy keeping temp coolish at 19.5 C... so far so good, but when it gets to 10 below and colder, eg. where C meets F (-28 or something ??) which can happen here.... then I suppose we shall see. Since I'm mostly in the city for the winter some public J1772 chargers have been saved and so may they save me one day if I miscalculate.

 

[RockinWithKids]

Thanks for the data points. They are helpful.

Because the 70D would make us an all EV house I am trying to go in eyes wide open with a worst case scenario as possible. Need to make sure that drives we do in Minnesota/Wisconsin during the winter can get us to where we need to do without compromising to much on speed. Temp right now is 20F/-7C which is reasonably "warm" for some of the temps I have driven in for extended periods of time.

Based on others data points I will likely adjust my worst anticipated Wh/mi to 500 Wh/mi. Doing so means I should get 101 miles / 162 km at 80% and 126 miles / 202 km at 100%.

Please keep tracking what you are seeing in Toronto as you push towards 0F / -17C and let me know what Wh/km (or Wh/mile) you are seeing.

 

[Armadillos]

Sorry for the late response, but I was out on vacation, and haven't really been in front of my computer until now. So here's the info I have going from my house in Denver, CO (Elevation is 5,600 ft), to my parent's place in Cheyenne, WY (Elevation is 6,000 ft):

I charged up to 200 miles on my 70D, and headed out. The temps were around 15-20F when I left Denver. Drove about 85MPH half way there, to which the car informed me that I wouldn't make it if I kept driving that far (Distance from my house to my parent's place is 125.4 miles). I slowed down to 80MPH, and was able to make it to their place with 22 miles of charge left.

The temp when I got there was around 5F.

So here's my information from my car (and I can give a picture as well if needed):

Miles Driven: 125.4
KWh Used: 47.6
Wh/mile: 380

Hope this helps!

 

[Lex]

Please keep tracking what you are seeing in Toronto as you push towards 0F / -17C and let me know what Wh/km (or Wh/mile) you are seeing.

Sure, but might be a while as they just readjusted next week's temps to around freezing with only one dip to -11 C / 10 F. We used to get lucky in Toronto with winter weather (well, relative to the neighboring cities) and it looks like this year we are, so far, very lucky.

Wonder where our European 70D drivers are ? It was below freezing in Athens yesterday... (then again only 2 below in Oslo right now)

The temp when I got there was around 5F.

So here's my information from my car (and I can give a picture as well if needed):

Miles Driven: 125.4
KWh Used: 47.6
Wh/mile: 380

Hope this helps!

Nice info. This reminds me, I had been meaning to bring up the whole "kWh Used" figure -- when I drove from 100% to 0% last, I think the car reported 57 used (I'm sure I have a picture somewhere). Am I missing something or shouldn't this figure more closely approach pack capacity ? And this is ignoring and added power that regen introduces. Perhaps lost in conversion, or part of the Tesla magic.

 

[RockinWithKids]

Sorry for the late response, but I was out on vacation, and haven't really been in front of my computer until now. So here's the info I have going from my house in Denver, CO (Elevation is 5,600 ft), to my parent's place in Cheyenne, WY (Elevation is 6,000 ft):

I charged up to 200 miles on my 70D, and headed out. The temps were around 15-20F when I left Denver. Drove about 85MPH half way there, to which the car informed me that I wouldn't make it if I kept driving that far (Distance from my house to my parent's place is 125.4 miles). I slowed down to 80MPH, and was able to make it to their place with 22 miles of charge left.

The temp when I got there was around 5F.

So here's my information from my car (and I can give a picture as well if needed):

Miles Driven: 125.4
KWh Used: 47.6
Wh/mile: 380

Hope this helps!

Very helpful. Thanks! 380 Wh/mile at 80-85 MPH in temps below 20F seems fantastic. Do you recall if this was wind aided (ie tail wind)?

- - - Updated - - -

Nice info. This reminds me, I had been meaning to bring up the whole "kWh Used" figure -- when I drove from 100% to 0% last, I think the car reported 57 used (I'm sure I have a picture somewhere). Am I missing something or shouldn't this figure more closely approach pack capacity ? And this is ignoring and added power that regen introduces. Perhaps lost in conversion, or part of the Tesla magic.

There's a bunch of threads on this but, to be really conservative, it's the reason I factored in that only 90% of the stated battery pack could be used.

Real Usable Battery Capacity

 

[Lex]

Interesting and related thread from a new 85D owner...
Disappointed with range estimate in first long term drive

I'd not want to experience my 1st BEV in the cold as it's a very different set of parameters to experience, that's for sure.

Going into the slow lane seems to be the best way to maximize winter range... though this tactic would probably have me pulling my hair out if not for Autopilot :wink:

 

[Lex]

Of particular note from that thread is to try EV Trip Planner:
EV Trip Planner

It doesn't have a 70D yet though, but you can toggle between 60 and 85D to get an idea. It seems pretty reasonable if not conservative.

In some browsers it seems you have to double-click on the button to make it calculate otherwise very good site.

 

[Armadillos]

Very helpful. Thanks! 380 Wh/mile at 80-85 MPH in temps below 20F seems fantastic. Do you recall if this was wind aided (ie tail wind)?

There was a cross wind, so was trying to blow my car sideways.

 

[Max*]

My usual morning trip during the summer uses 330wh/mi. It's about 15 miles of driving in 40mins, so lots of bumper-to-bumper traffic/stoplights/etc.

17F today in the morning, and I used 505wh/mi, no preheating, no range mode.

 

[RockinWithKids]

My usual morning trip during the summer uses 330wh/mi. It's about 15 miles of driving in 40mins, so lots of bumper-to-bumper traffic/stoplights/etc.

17F today in the morning, and I used 505wh/mi, no preheating, no range mode.

Thanks Max*. 70D or some other variant of an MS?

 

[Max*]

Thanks Max*. 70D or some other variant of an MS?

70D.

 

[RockinWithKids]

Now that the meteorological winter is here I would like to start a very self serving (looking to order a MS in the next 3 months and live in Minnesota) thread on the 70D and winter performance (specifically around real world range). Questions:

1. What was the longest trip you've taken during winter in your 70D in temperatures that were below 40F?
2. What was the temperature (approximately) during your driving?
3. Did you get the range you expected?
4. Did you do anything heroic to make some big "jumps" (ie distances over 200 miles)?

TIA!

Updating the original questions...

1. What was the longest trip you've taken during winter in your 70D in temperatures that were below 40F?
2. What was your Wh/mile?
3. What was the temperature (approximately) during your driving?
4. Did you get the range you expected?

 

[ForeverFree]

Keep in mind that he was at mile-high elevations. High altitudes (thinner air) offset some of the effects of colt temperature (thicker air).

 

[RockinWithKids]

Keep in mind that he was at mile-high elevations. High altitudes (thinner air) offset some of the effects of colt temperature (thicker air).

Good call out.

 

[sbradbury]

We've finally had some cold weather in MN, stats from yesterday

-6F for the morning drive
10 hours cold soak in the parking lot
2F for the evening drive

35 total miles driven, 435Wh/mile

range mode on
started the day from a warmish garage (35-40F)
pre-heated cabin while plugged in to 65F

Defrost always on
Cabin temp set at 65F
no seat heaters

 

[RockinWithKids]

We've finally had some cold weather in MN, stats from yesterday

-6F for the morning drive
10 hours cold soak in the parking lot
2F for the evening drive

35 total miles driven, 435Wh/mile

range mode on
started the day from a warmish garage (35-40F)
pre-heated cabin while plugged in to 65F

Defrost always on
Cabin temp set at 65F
no seat heaters

Good stats... Thanks! What would you say your average speed was?

 

[sbradbury]

Good stats... Thanks! What would you say your average speed was?

Not really sure how to estimate that, 75-80 on the freeway, I definitely do not go out of my way to drive slowly just to conserve energy on my normal daily drives.

 

[Magus]

I drive the speed limit generally. Driving interstate typically means 65-70. In conditions above 50 degrees, I want to say I'll have an efficiency rating of 260-270. Before the hard part of winter, even going into early winter my lifetime was 267 wh/mi. In freezing conditions and driving the highway speed limits, my wh/mi is typically 300-330. Sometimes less, even have seen 240. More if I make stops and there's a "cold soak." In subzero temperatures, trips above 40-50 degrees that typically are averaging 260-270 wh/mi, go to around 330. If I make a stop and cold soak - meaning in the deep freeze at least a couple of hours, typically three or more, may wh/mi spikes to the high 300s, almost 400. That is - stops while exposed to the deep freeze for a significant time period. With warm S, and subzero temperatures, my wh/mi climbs to 330ish in 55ish mph highways.


I'm happy with going with the 70D. In subzero weather, the SC's are spaced that you can make it despite the conditions. In summer I would have no issues venturing beyond the SC network. In winter, no issues at all with travelling and with plenty of excess range to do so. However, in subzero weather, I wouldn't dare venture significantly far from the SC network. I also wouldn't dare leave my home - let alone travel.

 

[nated]

I recently did a 206 mile there and back trip in my 70D with a charge to 100% in the middle. It was about 15-20F on mostly winding canyon roads with a lot of slowing/accelerating on corners. Average speed was maybe 50mph and the elevation climbs about 3500 feet going so descends the same coming back. No real attempt to conserve energy (no range mode, etc.); just driving like I usually do (which is moderately aggressive :biggrin, cabin heat on 70ish, carrying myself plus wife, two kids, and trunk/frunk full of stuff. I do percentage based battery display and after the trip there I was at 30%, and the trip back 43%.

It's a little concerning the first time you see the graph max out at 900 Wh/mi for 5-10 minutes after a cold start (especially below like 10F), but after that it drops down and looks good. The range is a bit lower than I expected in <30-40F weather, but met my expectations when it's above that. Overall I still love the 70D.

 

[RockinWithKids]

I drive the speed limit generally. Driving interstate typically means 65-70. In conditions above 50 degrees, I want to say I'll have an efficiency rating of 260-270. Before the hard part of winter, even going into early winter my lifetime was 267 wh/mi. In freezing conditions and driving the highway speed limits, my wh/mi is typically 300-330. Sometimes less, even have seen 240. More if I make stops and there's a "cold soak." In subzero temperatures, trips above 40-50 degrees that typically are averaging 260-270 wh/mi, go to around 330. If I make a stop and cold soak - meaning in the deep freeze at least a couple of hours, typically three or more, may wh/mi spikes to the high 300s, almost 400. That is - stops while exposed to the deep freeze for a significant time period. With warm S, and subzero temperatures, my wh/mi climbs to 330ish in 55ish mph highways.


I'm happy with going with the 70D. In subzero weather, the SC's are spaced that you can make it despite the conditions. In summer I would have no issues venturing beyond the SC network. In winter, no issues at all with travelling and with plenty of excess range to do so. However, in subzero weather, I wouldn't dare venture significantly far from the SC network. I also wouldn't dare leave my home - let alone travel.

Thanks! Had a friend make a run to Iowa from MN in subzero temps with his S85 (RWD) this weekend. He rated out at 465wh/mile for the trip. We figured the 70D would have been around 450wh/mile for that same trip.

I recently did a 206 mile there and back trip in my 70D with a charge to 100% in the middle. It was about 15-20F on mostly winding canyon roads with a lot of slowing/accelerating on corners. Average speed was maybe 50mph and the elevation climbs about 3500 feet going so descends the same coming back. No real attempt to conserve energy (no range mode, etc.); just driving like I usually do (which is moderately aggressive :biggrin, cabin heat on 70ish, carrying myself plus wife, two kids, and trunk/frunk full of stuff. I do percentage based battery display and after the trip there I was at 30%, and the trip back 43%.

It's a little concerning the first time you see the graph max out at 900 Wh/mi for 5-10 minutes after a cold start (especially below like 10F), but after that it drops down and looks good. The range is a bit lower than I expected in <30-40F weather, but met my expectations when it's above that. Overall I still love the 70D.

Thanks!