The deposit allowed you to CONFIGURE in the order of your reservation. When you go to configure, they give you a ruff estimate of when the different versions of the car will be built and available. You can then order what ever you like. If you want to order a product that won't be available until later in 2016, that is your choice. Porsche does the exact same thing. Try ordering the base Macan the first year. Any business that doesn't maximize it's margins when demand is high is run by a bunch of incompetents and deserves to go bankrupt.
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70D deliveries starting H2/16
- Thread starter dirkhh
- Start date
I can promise you as someone who has purchased Porsche and Audi vehicles in the past, there is no way they would have handled communication of what amounts to a 3 yr delay like this. Of course Tesla is a new company, but at some point you have to be realistic. When you ORDER a new model year Porsche or Audi you can get a production slot and are given a delivery estimate when you make your deposit. You know when you are ordering approximately when you will get the vehicle.
When Tesla took our deposit, they had certain expectations. They then reset them. Then reset them again. Then they "launched" and started "delivering" in 3Q so as to not have to reset them again. Only after some people were given access to the design studio have we learned that a regular 90D Model X will deliver in mid-2016. No matter how you want to look at it, Tesla delayed the Model X yet again but this time simply didn't announce it as a delay just letting their customers figure it out on their own.
If you think other manufacturers handle it this way, you are sadly mistaken. I applaud Tesla for taking on the dealer network and it's powerful lobby. I am EXTREMELY disappointed in Tesla for not understanding that customer service and communication is one of the key aspects of the dealership model that works. If you don't want to have traditional dealers that's fine, but you better figure out a way to handle your customer support better than Tesla is or they will not survive. The thought of Tesla attempting to scale to 500k deliveries a year right now is laughable.
I reserved the ability to configure among the first 4,000 people in May 2013. I just configured and ORDERED my 90D on Monday, making my $5,000 non-refundable. I was given a delivery estimate of mid-2016. The only difference is that Porsche doesn't let you reserve a configuration spot 2 years before ordering opens.
And a person who puts down a deposit now could get a car before you. At the end of the day, for your 3 year interest free loan you get to watch 5-10k people take delivery before you, many of which reserved after you. When Tesla publicly committed to delivering the X in 3Q 2015, as P4000 holder did you really think you wouldn't get your car until 3Q 2016?
If you feel your expectations have been met, I'm happy for you. Many of us feel very differently.
To reiterate what simplejack said, Tesla is in the beta phase. The Model S and X are merely an introduction into the market place. Tesla as a company will only survive if it is able to bring lower cost vehicles to the masses. Great companies have raging fans which spread by word of mouth their great enthusiasm of the company's products. I was a raging fan. I am now what they call in the ultimate question which is followed by every fortune 500 company on a scale of 1 to 10 how likely are you recommend Tesla to a friend or family member. I used to be a 10, now I am a 2.
Notions of justice and fair play dictate that you treat your customers fairly. Customers don't care about legal clauses or legal constructs. What they want is to feel that they were treated fairly. I met a nice young man at the Telsa store on the 3rd Street Promenade in Santa Monica in May of 2013. My husband put down 5k for a model S and I put down 5k for a Model X. That nice young man in his polo shirt with Telsa logo said that I would be the 3575th person to receive a Tesla X. I have no documentation in my possession that is contrary to that nice young man. Unequivocally clear statement. I postponed the purchase of a new vehicle and repeatedly delayed each time of which I would contact Tesla and ask them of their certainty of the future prediction of the delivery of my Model X. In September of 2015 my reservation number disappeared from my profile page, which I found alarming. I contacted Tesla immediately. A very pleasant young man assured me that I would be 3575th to take delivery on the Model X. My husband has been a lawyer for 28 years and no one has hit the right legal issues, as if that matters. I live in Santa Monica, I drive 200 miles a month I do not need or want a car that goes beyond the P70, I placed my money down in good faith on the reliance upon my trust in their representation that they would live up to their word. As many of you have stated, the primary reason that they have failed to live up to their word is because it is better for their stock price. When I put my 5k down it was not for a stock purchase, but for the purchase of a car. I can assure you the stock price will be severally hampered long term when they turn their promoters into distractors. My daughter and my mother intended to purchase the Model 3. Not only have they decided not to purchase the Model 3 they are relaying the injustice of my story to all that will hear it. If you want to talk about the long term: Take care of your customers and they will take care of you.
Notions of justice and fair play dictate that you treat your customers fairly. Customers don't care about legal clauses or legal constructs. What they want is to feel that they were treated fairly. I met a nice young man at the Telsa store on the 3rd Street Promenade in Santa Monica in May of 2013. My husband put down 5k for a model S and I put down 5k for a Model X. That nice young man in his polo shirt with Telsa logo said that I would be the 3575th person to receive a Tesla X. I have no documentation in my possession that is contrary to that nice young man. Unequivocally clear statement. I postponed the purchase of a new vehicle and repeatedly delayed each time of which I would contact Tesla and ask them of their certainty of the future prediction of the delivery of my Model X. In September of 2015 my reservation number disappeared from my profile page, which I found alarming. I contacted Tesla immediately. A very pleasant young man assured me that I would be 3575th to take delivery on the Model X. My husband has been a lawyer for 28 years and no one has hit the right legal issues, as if that matters. I live in Santa Monica, I drive 200 miles a month I do not need or want a car that goes beyond the P70, I placed my money down in good faith on the reliance upon my trust in their representation that they would live up to their word. As many of you have stated, the primary reason that they have failed to live up to their word is because it is better for their stock price. When I put my 5k down it was not for a stock purchase, but for the purchase of a car. I can assure you the stock price will be severally hampered long term when they turn their promoters into distractors. My daughter and my mother intended to purchase the Model 3. Not only have they decided not to purchase the Model 3 they are relaying the injustice of my story to all that will hear it. If you want to talk about the long term: Take care of your customers and they will take care of you.
TSLAX
Member
I agree simplejack. It all stinks. I am driving around a 2007 Yukon which has 250,000k miles on it. I want my Model X yesterday! I don't need a P90D at all. And to think my choice of 90D with 5 seats (kennel needed in back for two beautiful and spoiled English setters) will delay this further into 2016 is just insane. My husband loves his model S and yet he thinks it is nuts I have been waiting since Nov. 2012 for my car. He says I am quite impatient ......well for this car, I have been incredibly patient. We love the Tesla model S and I am sure the X will more than live up to our expectations. I just hope Tesla does the right thing and gets all early adopters and loyal followers their model X's ASAP regardless of their configurations.
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When you placed your money down, you did not know if there was going to be a 70D. We just found that out, and learned that it will be available in the second half of 2016. Not every version is going to be available on day 1. They are starting with one model, and working from there. That includes the 5 seat version, which might need a different floor for the trunk space. You are acting like the factory could produce what ever you want if Elon would just snap his fingers, but he isn't doing it to be mean. It takes a lot to bring a car like the X to market. I was expecting my X months ago. We just had to buy the car we were leasing in order to wait longer for the 90D. I am ok with that because I understand that if Tesla could sell me the car yesterday, they would have.
When I bought my Model S 60 I was a 10 on this scale. After the disastrous delivery experience with my P85D I was a maybe a 7. With v7 and all the weirdness around that maybe a 4. With the Model X 70D delivery maybe in a year I'm at 0. When people ask me these days my response is "I love the car, but I have no respect and no trust in the company".
Amen. I have "sold" about half a dozen Model S in 2013/14. Not a single one in Q1-Q3 of 2015. And I have talked two people out of buying Teslas last month.
Canuck
Well-Known Member
I don't want to downplay your concerns, but that "ultimate question" answer is not based on the worst responses. It's based on averages. I think Tesla knows there are far more 8 to 10 answers than 2's and it doesn't take much to average those low scores out with a lot of high ones. I also don't accept all the doom and gloom by some jaded prior fans suggesting that Tesla won't survive if it continues to act in this manner. In my opinion, the opposite is true. It's acting in this manner in order to ensure its continued survival. That may not sit well with some people, but that's the nature of capitalism. It's not always a pretty, moral or ethical process, and it definitely is not based on what is just and fair. I feel for those who were snubbed, while those with extra cash in their pockets jump the line, but isn't that true of pretty much everything?
Selling higher margin goods early in the life cycle is perfectly acceptable to me, completely botching customer expectations and lacking any ability to communicate effectively with your customers is completely unacceptable. To say they are acting this way to ensure their survival is laughable.
It makes you laugh? It makes me wince.
Yes, this is about communication. Many of the biggest challenges that Tesla has are all about communication. The loud-mouth brash CEO who sets unrealistic expectation. The absolute lack of transparency and incompetence in communicating with customers. The inability to communicate changes and decisions in a reasonable manner. This is just one more in that long list. They set expectations and we find out by observation that they won't meet those expectations. No update to reservation holders, no clear communication, nothing.
I think I would have had a X70D by now if they left off the falcon wing doors, the self opening doors, the fancy back seats, etc. Most of us just wanted a crossover version of the S that sat higher and had more capacity. Instead we get an expensive over engineered CUV for the Kardashians.
I'm not as upset as others as I ended up buying another S that fits my budget. Maybe that was Elon's plan all along?
I'm not as upset as others as I ended up buying another S that fits my budget. Maybe that was Elon's plan all along?
Tesla communications and marketing is a total failure. At least with the Model S rollout, people cut them some slack. However, with George B in the mix, he would respond to ease the miscommunications or rampant speculations. The Model S even had a drive-tour event for reservation holders to test drive cars and view the car up close at various cities in the US and Europe. They also had Model S and X alpha events at stores and other areas to view and sit in the beta mules to gain publicity and awareness. At least we knew what most of the options were going to give us when we configured. They STILL had issues communicating on deliveries and when people would get their cars. It was so bad, there were Production orders who got their cars before Sig holders.
With the X rollout, no tour event, no "come see the new X", all the communication has gone to zero.
My prediction the 70D will start to ship when the hit through about 75% of the P90 and 90D orders.
With the X rollout, no tour event, no "come see the new X", all the communication has gone to zero.
My prediction the 70D will start to ship when the hit through about 75% of the P90 and 90D orders.
My personal configuration of a 5 seat 70D with AP and leather probably wouldn't be available until 2017.
I just wanted to state that the conception that someone putting a P90D deposit today will get it before someone who reserved almost 4 years ago, may not be correct. Unless someone can provide an instance of this, I suspect that Tesla will honor current reservation holders before new reservations holders, perhaps based on a date in the past as a cut-off. They can't keep letting people "jump" the queue indefinitely. We simply don't know their build algorithm right now, so let's not get all worked-up until we have more facts.
The only caveat to this theory is that the design for the 5-seat version may not be ready until sometime next year, so those models may be constrained until the design is done.
The only caveat to this theory is that the design for the 5-seat version may not be ready until sometime next year, so those models may be constrained until the design is done.
I remember new P85 buyers getting their cars before those who had reservations for S60/S40 with coils in 2013.
Canuck
Well-Known Member
I'd feel bad doing that. You would have taken away something that gives me joy on a daily basis if you did that to me.
But even beyond that, I'll use the example of a really bad doctor that hurts you 'you know where' while performing a routine physical. But he's the only doctor in town and it's impossible to see another doctor (i.e. you can't buy another long range EV). You're telling that person not to get a physical even though a bad physical can still do a lot of good.
At least that's how I see it. Again, not to downplay your concerns. I just wish you could direct those people to another long range EV. Tesla really that to smarten them up.
Well, either they will deliver a P90D to someone who reserves today, or they will deliver way less model Xs than expected in 2016, or they will deliver 90D earlier than they communicated (which would be the first time in history Tesla has exceeded new model delivery expectations).
To your main point however, it would be nice to get some formal communication from Tesla wouldn't it?
I agree, it would be nice to get some better communication from Tesla. But at times I think "they're flying by the seats of their pants" and they honestly don't know or haven't figured out the timings yet.
I want to be clear, I do not believe that the production of the Model-X has been 100% figured out yet. They're still figuring out options, build order, accessories, etc. So, when they say they're ramping up, I believe they are ramping up only a small segment of their configurations. As soon as they figure out new configurations, they'll begin to ramp them up as well. For example, the 5-seat configuration may not begin to ramp up until they've finalized the design of the trunk area, sometime middle of next year.
Rdalcanto, you are missing the point. I put the money down over 2 ½ years ago based upon what the nice young man in his nice Tesla logo’d polo said that I would be the 3575[SUP]th[/SUP] person to take delivery of the Model X. Tesla didn’t know the configurations and they told me I could choose the one I preferred on their website. He sat me down and took me through the configuration of my husband’s Model S and said that I could do the same thing when the Model X would arrive.
Do you really think that some clause or some legal argument is going to make someone that has waited 2 ½ years feel they have been treated fairly when after that long a wait, Tesla says, you have to pay 35k for stuff you don’t want or you have to go to the end of the line? Really? The nice young man told me I could build my Model X according to what I wanted, not according to what Tesla wanted or what someone else thinks I need. I know what I want when I buy a car, no help needed or requested.
I have very little to do every day. What excites me now is to get up every day and tell my story of how I was treated by Tesla. I was at Orange Theory today and they let me take the microphone before class and I told my story and everyone stood up and boo’d. I spent 2 hours after class telling people my story. One was from a very popular talk show and she thinks I can tell my story there.
Elon Musk brought the electric car alive and I have great respect for the tenacity that it took to do that. He is worth 10 billion dollars now, I am not worried about his financial status. What he did to me was evil in my opinion and I intend to share that with as many people as I can. Every day, I have committed to tell 5 people (I reached 60 today) my story, post my story on 3 blogs and post here every day until my car is ready and then I am going to merely park it on the street in Santa Monica with a sign that says “Tesla treated me unfairly and I bought the car just to hang the sign”.
Do you really think that some clause or some legal argument is going to make someone that has waited 2 ½ years feel they have been treated fairly when after that long a wait, Tesla says, you have to pay 35k for stuff you don’t want or you have to go to the end of the line? Really? The nice young man told me I could build my Model X according to what I wanted, not according to what Tesla wanted or what someone else thinks I need. I know what I want when I buy a car, no help needed or requested.
I have very little to do every day. What excites me now is to get up every day and tell my story of how I was treated by Tesla. I was at Orange Theory today and they let me take the microphone before class and I told my story and everyone stood up and boo’d. I spent 2 hours after class telling people my story. One was from a very popular talk show and she thinks I can tell my story there.
Elon Musk brought the electric car alive and I have great respect for the tenacity that it took to do that. He is worth 10 billion dollars now, I am not worried about his financial status. What he did to me was evil in my opinion and I intend to share that with as many people as I can. Every day, I have committed to tell 5 people (I reached 60 today) my story, post my story on 3 blogs and post here every day until my car is ready and then I am going to merely park it on the street in Santa Monica with a sign that says “Tesla treated me unfairly and I bought the car just to hang the sign”.
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