70D loaded vs. 85D with fewer options

[stevej119]

2500 at delivery vs 3000 later for autopilot would be a wash when I factor consider the interest on the auto loan.

That would only be true if you're borrowing from a loan shark.

 

[ssq]

Sorry if I am hijacking the thread, I understand the OP needs the AWD/D variants. But in SoCal/San Diego/Bay area does it even make sense to get a D? I am debating 70 vs. 70D vs. 85 when it comes to getting the best bang for the buck. What is the D version really buying me for the extra $5k aside from the second motor and improved traction in cold/icy conditions and slightly better performance.

 

[stevej119]

Sorry if I am hijacking the thread, I understand the OP needs the AWD/D variants. But in SoCal/San Diego/Bay area does it even make sense to get a D? I am debating 70 vs. 70D vs. 85 when it comes to getting the best bang for the buck. What is the D version really buying me for the extra $5k aside from the second motor and improved traction in cold/icy conditions and slightly better performance.

It's also getting you slightly more range (5 miles). I wouldn't call the performance difference slightly, though. The D is much quicker.

 

[liuping]

I wouldn't call the performance difference slightly, though. The D is much quicker.

For me the 85D feels as fast as the original P85, but with noticeably better traction on every launch, not just in bad weather conditions.

That combined with better range, makes the $5k a very good deal in my opinion.

Between the 70D and an normal 85, its almost a wash. I' probably do the 70D, just for the improved traction.

But if there is any way to swing it, I recommend getting the 85D, even if it means giving up other options.

 

[tstafford]

OP - I'd definitely forego the Air Suspension if you are on a tight budget. I don't have it and don't miss it one bit. Doing it again I'd get UHFS but again skip the Air Suspension.

 

[TheAccuser]

I never considered less than the 85D, but I'm happy I didn't spend the extra money upgrading to the P85D or P90D. I would love the P90DL, but I'm amazed at house quick the 85D is. I might splurge for my next build though.

 

[max amp]

I thought 85D would be a better option but also expected to hear a few compelling arguments supporting the 70D as well. As far as the seats I really didn't consider textile to be an option for me. I have a test drive scheduled Wednesday so I will inquire about them. That would be a huge $1750 savings.

I heard the standard sound package sounds very "tinny" and doesn't offer much base. As a music lover I would probably choose the sound package over the air suspension if I choose between the two. Would that be a wise choice??

Also, I can do without the premium interior package. It would be a nice feature. But definitely not a necessity.

2500 at delivery vs 3000 later for autopilot would be a wash when I factor consider the interest on the auto loan.

I'm also assuming the cold weather package is a no brainier for living in New England.

Again, thank you all for your responses.

I had the same dilemma and chose the 85D and 'stretched' the budget. It is definitely conceivable to save $10.5k on a new purchase by not choosing the seats, autopilot, updated audio and premium interior. I am in MD so getting a total of $10.5k back from tax credits was also a factor in my decision over a CPO option. Most of the inventory cars allow for the tax break so that is a good way to save $$$$.

Regarding the sound system, I understand that half of the configuration of the amp & the speakers are the same on both models and that the upgraded package only includes an upgraded amp, and rear speakers and the amp. That said, it is conceivable that you could look for an aftermarket solution that costs much less than $2500 that 'may' deliver the same or better quality of sound. Check out this thread for more information - Model S Premium Audio System: How To Videos

Good luck!

 

[Max*]

OP - 180 miles with no SpC, I'd go for the 85D. Winter + a few years down the road, you'll probably be happy you did.

70D = 240 mi rated range
240*0.95= 228 mi rated range left after 5% degradation
228*0.83= 189 mi actual range on average after rated range is converted to actual range

Degradation, 5% seems reasonable.

Where did you get 17% from? This is completely not true.

Here, 70D, 206 miles and still have at least another 15RM left (so that brings it to 221 miles), and we were speeding the whole time (+10-15mph, IIRC).

 

[Troy]

Where did you get 17% from? This is completely not true.

I used survey data. Your efficiency in that trip is much better than the average lifetime efficiency of multiple users. Elevation, wind or air density might have helped in that trip. Instead looking at 1 trip. it is better to look at lifetime Wh/mi number. But instead just one user, it is better to take the average of multiple users. My calculation was this:

75,900 Wh / 345 Wh/mi= 220 mi
220/265= 83%

75,900 Wh: Usable capacity of 85 kWh battery according to this page.
345 Wh/mi= Lifetime average energy consumption of S85 according to this survey.
265 mi = EPA rated range of S85

That was for S85. I don't know the usable capacity of 70 kWh battery but if it is proportional to the 85's usable capacity, then the calculation for 70D would be like this:

62,506 Wh / 313 Wh/mi= 199.7 mi
199.7 mi/240 mi= 83%

62,506 Wh: If 75.9 kWh is available in 85 kWh battery, then in 70 kWh battery the available capacity should be 70*75.9/85= 62.506 Wh
313 Wh/mi= Lifetime average energy consumption of 70D according to this survey.
240 mi = EPA rated range of 70D

 

[Max*]

I used survey data. Your efficiency in that trip is much better than 70D lifetime average energy consumption (313 Wh/mi = 195 Wh/km). However when you consider a large group of users, lifetime actual range is 83% of rated range.

You have a serious flaw in your logic (I didn't check your math). Lifetime averages are not to be used to convert RM to real miles for roadtrips.

Lifetime averages are a weighted average of your daily commute (be it 5 miles in bumper to bumper traffic or 100 miles doing 95mph on the highway), and your road trip travels. If the weights on that average are 0/100 then you can determine how long the 70D can travel on a roadtrip. Otherwise math doesn't like that .

If I do 95% congested city driving (350Wh/mi), and do road trips on 5% of my road trips (260Wh/mi), that doesn't mean that the RANGE of the 70D is based on my lifetime average (be it 310Wh/mi or 333Wh/mi). The range is still based on my long distance travels!

Most people's commute to work doesn't use the entire range of the car, so again using lifetime averages is flawed. 2 short trips will make your Wh/Mi shoot up much faster/higher than 1 trip with the same distance.

Also most people commute to work 5 days a week, and might do roadtrips once a month. So again, your lifetime average is heavily based on your daily commute.


For reference: My lifetime average is 309Wh/mi. My daily commute average in congested traffic is 350Wh/mi. My roadtrip average (including speeding) is about 260-270Wh/mi. If I didn't speed, I could probably get down to 240Wh/Mi.



That 17% is completely bogus, and the OP should ignore it. That being said, he should still go for an 85D if he needs to make 180mile trips, while speeding in cold weather and have enough buffer not to worry after owning the car for 5 years.

 

[AMPd]

I never considered less than the 85D, but I'm happy I didn't spend the extra money upgrading to the P85D or P90D. I would love the P90DL, but I'm amazed at house quick the 85D is. I might splurge for my next build though.

Your house is fast if it's giving the 85D a run for its money.
My house cannot do that

 

[tanker5]

I appreciate all of your responses. In another forum, another person recommended looking into CHAdeMO charging in places where there are gaps in superchargers. I checked a map of CHAdeMO Chargers and sure enough there are a couple located along the routes that I regularly travel where there are no superchargers. Since a $450 adapter (even with the extra $2500 charge for dual chargers in the future) is much less than the $10k difference between the two batteries, would this be a good option if I was still considering the 70D?? Can anyone here in the North East share their experiences using CHAdeMO chargers??

 

[TheAccuser]

Your house is fast if it's giving the 85D a run for its money.
My house cannot do that

Maybe you bought the wrong house?

 

[liuping]

Since a $450 adapter (even with the extra $2500 charge for dual chargers in the future) is much less than the $10k difference between the two batteries, would this be a good option if I was still considering the 70D??

CHAdeMO I charging is not as fast as super charging. You maybe be adding 30-45 minutes or more to your commute. To me that is not an acceptable option.

 

[tanker5]

It's not a route that I drive every day. Maybe once a month or so.

Also it seems like Tesla has removed the standard grey and tan leather seats from the configurator. If I wanted to get tan or beige interior I would have to go with the next gen seats. I'm going to inquire about this tomorrow.

 

[CHGolferJim]

Another data point is Bjorn's video on his 70D test in Norway.

 

[matbl]

If on a budget but need the range of the 85. Go for an 85 without D and add only options that you can't live without.
The textile seats are great BTW. You need to see them before going for leather if on a really tight budget.
Or maybe a back wheel drive 90?

 

[hingisfan]

You could go 85D with AP only. Then you get the extra performance, extra range, and AP features. Textile seats are great and will probably hold up better long term than leather.

70D is a great car too though, see Bjorn's latest trip in one on Youtube. But, if it's a choice between options like pano roof, sound pkg, subzero, and premium interior, vs the 85D, I'd go 85D with AP only all the way.

I'm really not a fan of the titanium metallic color, but that's a personal preference I guess. I like white, red, and the new blue is nice too.

 

[CHGolferJim]

I'm going 70D as I'd rather have $10k in options than 30 miles more range, and I have a price cap. The choice is aided by living in the Southeast re weather impacts on range, and having an ICE or PHEV 2nd car for rare longer trips that may present a charging problem.

 

[TheAccuser]

I'm going 70D as I'd rather have $10k in options than 30 miles more range, and I have a price cap. The choice is aided by living in the Southeast re weather impacts on range, and having an ICE or PHEV 2nd car for rare longer trips that may present a charging problem.

I think that's a wise move. I was in the same boat, except deciding on doing a less loaded P85D or a fully loaded 85D. I opted for the 85D and am really happy with my decision. I spend so much time in the car, upgrading the interior was worth more to me that some straight line acceleration.