70D (original) Supercharging Rate

[GlmnAlyAirCar]

I am starting this new thread because I haven't seen too many numbers specifically related to 70D and loss of supercharging speed. Specifically, I am referring to the original 70D that was introduced in April 2015. I have a high-mileage car (175,000 miles). Over time, supercharging has become a real chore. Initially, my charge power will be pretty good. On a recent trip, starting with 7% SOC, my charge rate began at 111kW. Not bad when compared to new when I would frequently see 117kW. However, tapering begins immediately. As you can see from the graph below, within 4 minutes rate is below 80kW and within 13 minutes is down to 59kW. Then it stays in the 40s and 50s for the remainder of the session.

The estimates on the MCI ("x minutes until you can continue your drive") are way off, frequently by a factor of two. 30 minutes is closer to an hour.

I am curious what others' experience is to see if this is a common trend or if perhaps there is something wrong with my car (e.g., cooling system issue). Please share your data if you can.

(software version 2020.24.6.11, approx 174,500 miles)

 

[JustADude]

This is because of the update last May 2019. It's referred to as chargegate.

There's a whole 600 page long shitshow of a thread going on here.

It's "normal" as all pre facelift owners are experiencing the downgrade.

 

[GlmnAlyAirCar]

This is because of the update last May 2019. It's referred to as chargegate.

There's a whole 600 page long shitshow of a thread going on here.

It's "normal" as all pre facelift owners are experiencing the downgrade.

I’m well aware of chargegate. I am looking for specific 70D numbers which were not well represented in that thread.

 

[Rocky_H]

my charge rate began at 111kW. Not bad when compared to new when I would frequently see 117kW.

Well that surprises me already. I have a 2014 S85. The 85s back then, which were 400V packs could only hit about 114kW generally, and the 350V packs like the old 60 and your 70 I remember most people saying they could only see up to about 104 to 108kW. So your saying you used to see 117kW I already find pretty out there, and your thinking that 111kW is slow is what I find odd.

 

[GlmnAlyAirCar]

Well that surprises me already. I have a 2014 S85. The 85s back then, which were 400V packs could only hit about 114kW generally, and the 350V packs like the old 60 and your 70 I remember most people saying they could only see up to about 104 to 108kW. So your saying you used to see 117kW I already find pretty out there, and your thinking that 111kW is slow is what I find odd.

It’s not that 111 is slow. I think it’s pretty good. The problem is it only hits that for literally a few seconds before heavy taper.

 

[cezdoc]

There's some post-chargegate data on this ABRP blog post:

Tesla Supercharging - Summer 2019 Update
(scroll down to the BT70 battery)

My S70 (not D) is 4 1/2 years old but has only done about 33,000 miles, with about 4400 kW of DC charging. It has been affected somewhat by charge gate (Iower Supercharging speeds) and less so by battery gate (range is only down by ~4% from new). I don't have a data logger but here are some spot values from a session from nearly empty after a long drive back in November:

SOC[%] - Rate [kW]
3 - 112
6 - 109
8 - 105
10 - 104
17 - 91
36 - 68
44 - 60

Looking at other sessions the rate can vary by +/-5 kW for any given SOC though. Generally I'm at the lower end of the dense cloud of data points on the ABRP chart.

I tend to see an initial spike and drop back in the rate for maybe a minute - this isn't really tapering as then it will reduce at a more steady rate for the rest of the session. So for example once I started at 5% and the rate briefly hit 114 kW at 6% but dropped back almost immediately.

As well as generally reduced charging rates I have the impression that the car is more fussy about being at optimum temperature for charging, it does seem to throttle back more aggressively especially when the battery is cool.

 

[cezdoc]

As well as generally reduced charging rates I have the impression that the car is more fussy about being at optimum temperature for charging, it does seem to throttle back more aggressively especially when the battery is cool.

Oh and I also find the Nav is way off in terms of charging time estimation, and I'm not nearly as badly affected as the OP. That's pretty annoying considering all the charge rate throttling has clearly been influenced by software updates. Did no-one think to update the Nav charge curve estimates when they tweaked the battery charge curve controls?

 

[GlmnAlyAirCar]

There's some post-chargegate data on this ABRP blog post:

Tesla Supercharging - Summer 2019 Update
(scroll down to the BT70 battery)

View attachment 576160

My S70 (not D) is 4 1/2 years old but has only done about 33,000 miles, with about 4400 kW of DC charging. It has been affected somewhat by charge gate (Iower Supercharging speeds) and less so by battery gate (range is only down by ~4% from new). I don't have a data logger but here are some spot values from a session from nearly empty after a long drive back in November:

SOC[%] - Rate [kW]
3 - 112
6 - 109
8 - 105
10 - 104
17 - 91
36 - 68
44 - 60

Looking at other sessions the rate can vary by +/-5 kW for any given SOC though. Generally I'm at the lower end of the dense cloud of data points on the ABRP chart.

I tend to see an initial spike and drop back in the rate for maybe a minute - this isn't really tapering as then it will reduce at a more steady rate for the rest of the session. So for example once I started at 5% and the rate briefly hit 114 kW at 6% but dropped back almost immediately.

As well as generally reduced charging rates I have the impression that the car is more fussy about being at optimum temperature for charging, it does seem to throttle back more aggressively especially when the battery is cool.

Thanks that's exactly the information I was looking for. You and I start at about the same charge power, but I taper much more quickly. After three minutes you are at 112kw; after three minutes I am at 83kw. After ten you are at 104; after ten I am at 65. So, there is clearly a difference.

One factor is obviously battery use as I have 175,000 miles on mine. But these number still suggest that there is something out of the ordinary with my supercharging. I suspect a cooling issue but I don't have the data to prove it. The facia louvers work as I observe them opening when I plug in at home. However, I NEVER see them opening while supercharging. Also, I would like to see if my throat louver is opening but that's much more difficult to observe, and I believe this louver is much more instrumental while active cooling is occurring.

 

[cezdoc]

Thanks that's exactly the information I was looking for. You and I start at about the same charge power, but I taper much more quickly. After three minutes you are at 112kw; after three minutes I am at 83kw. After ten you are at 104; after ten I am at 65. So, there is clearly a difference.

One factor is obviously battery use as I have 175,000 miles on mine. But these number still suggest that there is something out of the ordinary with my supercharging. I suspect a cooling issue but I don't have the data to prove it. The facia louvers work as I observe them opening when I plug in at home. However, I NEVER see them opening while supercharging. Also, I would like to see if my throat louver is opening but that's much more difficult to observe, and I believe this louver is much more instrumental while active cooling is occurring.

Note I'm quoting SOC%, rather than time, vs. charge rate, so 3% -> 112 kW and 10% -> 104 kW. I just checked and my car took less than 2 minutes to get from 3% to 10%. On another session it took ~5 minutes to get from 6%/109kW to 18%/90kW. But still noticeably faster and less taper than yours.

Before 2019, anecdotally, I would often hear (what I presumed to be) fans running loudly while supercharging whereas the car is much
quieter now, so some changes to cooling behaviour could have been introduced with software updates. But you'd expect the car to do its best to maximise cooling and allow faster charging while keeping the battery temperature moderate.

175,000 miles on a S70D is pretty amazing given how untested a lot of the technology was when it came out (and to an extent, still is). It's a shame that your Supercharging has been throttled back so much but at least the car is still going - and presumably it's fine for shorter trips between destination chargers.

 

[GlmnAlyAirCar]

Note I'm quoting SOC%, rather than time, vs. charge rate, so 3% -> 112 kW and 10% -> 104 kW. I just checked and my car took less than 2 minutes to get from 3% to 10%. On another session it took ~5 minutes to get from 6%/109kW to 18%/90kW. But still noticeably faster and less taper than yours.

Before 2019, anecdotally, I would often hear (what I presumed to be) fans running loudly while supercharging whereas the car is much
quieter now, so some changes to cooling behaviour could have been introduced with software updates. But you'd expect the car to do its best to maximise cooling and allow faster charging while keeping the battery temperature moderate.

175,000 miles on a S70D is pretty amazing given how untested a lot of the technology was when it came out (and to an extent, still is). It's a shame that your Supercharging has been throttled back so much but at least the car is still going - and presumably it's fine for shorter trips between destination chargers.

The interesting thing is that I do hear the AC blasting while supercharging. That's why I'm curious about the louvers. If that throat louver is not opening then the AC is struggling to suck air. But cabin AC seems to work just fine, so maybe that's not it.

 

[Lawyermilloy]

2015 70D - supercharging at the new 250kw park lane in Dallas and only at 20kw @ 73%

 

[Lawyermilloy]

2015 70D - supercharging at the new 250kw park lane in Dallas and only at 20kw @ 73%

 

[Lawyermilloy]

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