70D range vs 85 dealer says they are almost the same range

[Lex]

As much as I appreciate the efficiency of my 70D, I'd suggest you get as big a battery as you can afford.

It would be nearly impossible for me to exhaust my pack inside and around the city in a day on my daily appointments, but the upcoming occasional trips outside of the city, with some added jaunts, in the deep of winter, are what will add some planning to may days ahead that you can avoid by throwing money at the problem :tongue:

 

[Oba]

70D range = 240 miles EPA
85 range = 265 miles EPA

Actually, the EPA range of the 70D is 250 miles, not 240. The lower value used by Tesla is likely to keep this car in the "pecking order". So, to be clear, the actual EPA difference between the two cars is 15 EPA miles.

Note the 70D supercharges slower than the 85 because the 70D has a 350V battery and the 85 has a 400V battery. I think the difference is the 70D is around 20% slower.

Ah, I'm not so sure. I don't believe the previous cars (before 70D) were capable of 370 amps... big difference in Supercharger time at low SOC%. So, once again, the perception doesn't meet reality.

 

[Spit]

On the Tesla website the quoted range for the 70D is 275 miles but everywhere else it's 240 miles. Why is that?

 

[Lex]

Last 100% charge pic I took says 377 km = 234 1/3 miles.

edit: earlier 100% charge pic showed 238 miles (1 month and approx 5000 km in)

 

[Lanber]

On Supercharging my 85D will draw 330+ amps and top out at 118 kwh from 0 to 28% before tapering kicks in and gradually reduces the amps as the volts increase.
If you have a 350V pack tapering kicks in earlier and you are from that point behind on the curve.

There are 14 blocks vs 16 blocks on the 70 vs 85 kwh pack. They made the 60 pack into 70 by simply putting real cells into dummy spots.

 

[dsm363]

I find the adverticed range as in "Rated range" to be a joke in real world. You get on avarage 80% of that. 50-70% if wet, cold and speeding. The latter being the real killer.
For driving 240 miles return trip without charging you ideally need a 90D and charge it to 100% before you leave.
But then if you have access to a 16A plug (car will draw 13A) while you`re there you can help out on the range by about 8 miles pr hour plugged in.

Charging to 100% isnt all that bad, charging to 100% in hot weather and letting the battery sit with high SOC is bad.

I have driven Model S since september 2013

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D vs singel engine:

The D models have lower consumption and hence higher range on highway speeds. This due to 2 smaller more efficient engines and torque sleep on the rear engine while the front engine also has a higher gearing ratio.

50% might be a little bit much. I guess it depends on what you mean by speeding. I've have my car since late 2012 and have never seen anything close to 50% of rated range. I guess if you were going up an 8,000 ft mountain in the cold at 75 mph you might see that. Most close to legal speeds you should see at least 70-80% of rated range.

 

[Troy]

On the Tesla website the quoted range for the 70D is 275 miles but everywhere else it's 240 miles. Why is that?

Because the UK version of Tesla website shows NEDC rated range instead EPA rated range. NEDC stands for New European Driving Cycle. EPA means Environmental Protection Agency in the US. EPA rated range is used in Canada and US only. EPA tests are more realistic than NEDC. I recommend that you ignore NEDC numbers (the numbers shown on the UK website) and instead look at the US version. It is not Tesla's fault that the European agency uses an inaccurate testing method.

 

[brucet999]

…my main interest is trying to understand if the 85 will truly give me an extra 25 miles on motorways against the 70d or is the 70d better range for the types of journey I do...

Here is a link to EPA ratings. Gas Mileage of 2015 Tesla Model S

Note that 85D average performance is not as good as 70D by one kWh/100mi, but at highway speeds is is 1 kWh/100mi better. I think EPA testing is about 40% city, 60% highway speeds 60 to 80mph.

 

[Lanber]

50% is the absolute lowest I have been during winter. From Grimstad to Oslo, 280km. Couldnt make it on one charge (3 SC enroute so no worries), that was slush snow / wet asphalt, heater on and familiy onbard with a ferry to catch.

My point is, dont count on getting RATED RANGE, that will very seldom happen! TYPICAL RANGE yes, but not in winter.

 

[mwulff]

As someone mentioned you should completely ignore the NEDC numbers, they have no bearing on reality as we know it. For my 85 Rwd I can get 300 km's easy and if I go easy I could get it up to 400-430'ish

 

[2krazykats]

So from reading this thread, it seems that if you can afford it, getting the bigger battery (85 vs 70) is the way to go. But the cost of the battery upgrade is steep (for me). Has anyone ever swapped a battery after having bought a car or if it's even possible or financially makes sense to do so? Just wondering if I decide to go with a 70 battery now and upgrade to a bigger battery in the future (who knows what that might cost) if that is something that could be done.

I'm a little disheartened by reading about the battery degradation numbers even though I realize it happens. It seems that if I keep my car long term (10 years) that it would eventually need a battery replacement.

 

[Oba]

On Supercharging my 85D will draw 330+ amps and top out at 118 kwh from 0 to 28% before tapering kicks in and gradually reduces the amps as the volts increase.
If you have a 350V pack tapering kicks in earlier and you are from that point behind on the curve.

The lower voltage pack in the 70D pulls 365+ amps... So, the initial charge rate in kW is nearly identical.

If you charge from near zero to 150 miles / 240km, that should get you from Supercharger to Supercharger in most places (maybe not in extreme cold or with snow / heavy rain). The difference in charge time from zero to 150 miles is 9 minutes longer for the 70D.

 

[brkaus]

So from reading this thread, it seems that if you can afford it, getting the bigger battery (85 vs 70) is the way to go. But the cost of the battery upgrade is steep (for me). Has anyone ever swapped a battery after having bought a car or if it's even possible or financially makes sense to do so? Just wondering if I decide to go with a 70 battery now and upgrade to a bigger battery in the future (who knows what that might cost) if that is something that could be done.

I'm a little disheartened by reading about the battery degradation numbers even though I realize it happens. It seems that if I keep my car long term (10 years) that it would eventually need a battery replacement.

Don't count on battery replacement short term. There is a thread here that puts the cost of a 90 pack at $22500 with core exchange.

 

[jerry33]

So from reading this thread, it seems that if you can afford it, getting the bigger battery (85 vs 70) is the way to go. But the cost of the battery upgrade is steep (for me). Has anyone ever swapped a battery after having bought a car or if it's even possible or financially makes sense to do so? Just wondering if I decide to go with a 70 battery now and upgrade to a bigger battery in the future (who knows what that might cost) if that is something that could be done.

I'm a little disheartened by reading about the battery degradation numbers even though I realize it happens. It seems that if I keep my car long term (10 years) that it would eventually need a battery replacement.

The biggest hit is right at the beginning, then it stabilizes. Also there is really no way to tell (that won't do more harm than good) how much is real loss and how much is balance or algorithm. Using ideal rather than rated seems to give a better number, but few use ideal for this purpose.

I suspect by the time you actually need a new battery the prices will be significantly lower (or the range will be significantly higher).

FWIW, at 60K miles and closing in on three years I'm about 2% higher than what the battery should be based on industry charts (first year 5% then 1% per year).

 

[brucet999]

EPA testing showed 70D actually at 244 miles, "voluntarily rated 240 my manufacturer".

 

[CaptDaveHowe]

I recently moved up from a 60 to an 85, with the first idea of moving up to a 70D. I would say that the reply posts on this thread are on point. My range perspective is this: my 60 gave me 180 miles rated charge, with 200-209 fully charged. Time at a super charger is significantly longer than the 85. The D70 would give me around 200 miles rated charge and 235 fully charged. My 85 gives me 235-24040 rated charge with 265 fully charged. The 85 charges up much quicker at the supercharger. For $5,000 less than a D85, and $5,000 more than the D70 I think it's worth it. Again I had the 60, which for the most part of my daily experience worked just fine. However, it did have draw backs, such as taking a day trip out to the east end of Long Island and having just enough to get back, meaning no side trips. Or going up to see family in Hamden CT and having to stop at a supercharger both ways up and down. Having the extra 30-40 miles with the 85, to me, an average driver (miles), is a big deal and increases the positive experience of owning a Tesla.

By the way, I live in NY (Long Island) and had no slipping problems in snow with the rear wheel drive of my 60. Also, never really did use the air suspension. So I did not order that with my new 2015 85. Spent it on the Next Gen Seats - on advice from the Tesla Forum owners - again spot on!

Hope this helps.

 

[2krazykats]

I recently moved up from a 60 to an 85, with the first idea of moving up to a 70D. I would say that the reply posts on this thread are on point. My range perspective is this: my 60 gave me 180 miles rated charge, with 200-209 fully charged. Time at a super charger is significantly longer than the 85. The D70 would give me around 200 miles rated charge and 235 fully charged. My 85 gives me 235-24040 rated charge with 265 fully charged. The 85 charges up much quicker at the supercharger. For $5,000 less than a D85, and $5,000 more than the D70 I think it's worth it. Again I had the 60, which for the most part of my daily experience worked just fine. However, it did have draw backs, such as taking a day trip out to the east end of Long Island and having just enough to get back, meaning no side trips. Or going up to see family in Hamden CT and having to stop at a supercharger both ways up and down. Having the extra 30-40 miles with the 85, to me, an average driver (miles), is a big deal and increases the positive experience of owning a Tesla.

By the way, I live in NY (Long Island) and had no slipping problems in snow with the rear wheel drive of my 60. Also, never really did use the air suspension. So I did not order that with my new 2015 85. Spent it on the Next Gen Seats - on advice from the Tesla Forum owners - again spot on!

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the info on the range differences and your experience with the 60 for both the range and RWD in the snow. I've been vacillating between the 70 vs 85 and whether I truly need AWD. I'm still on the fence on both. One day, it's the 70D and another day when I see so many good deals on the RWD CPOs, I think about getting S85 with more options than I would with the 70D. It seems that most people who have 60/70/85 are happy they have it and those with RWD are happy w/o AWD so it isn't a clear cut decision. I probably won't make a final decision anytime soon but it does seem that people are happy with what they have regardless.