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70D vs 85D comparisons are classist

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It depends on the 401k Loan rate.

When I got my Model S back in 2013, the auto loan was 1.49%, while my 401k Loan rate was 7%. In that case paying double tax on 7% is more money the the straight 1.99% rate.

I guess rates are a little more comparable now. I've seen rates of 1.49%-2.99% on a car loan for 60-84 months and 401k loan is at 4.25% now roughly?
 
I guess rates are a little more comparable now. I've seen rates of 1.49%-2.99% on a car loan for 60-84 months and 401k loan is at 4.25% now roughly?

Guys, I only took out $25k at 4%. I paid off the Volt, threw some at credit cards, and will put a $7,500 deposit down (and recoup that in February with our taxes). I would hate for you guys to think I took out a $100k loan for the entire car! :)
 
I financed the whole amount even though i could have written a check. At <2% i will borrow every dollar offered to me. My return on capital is significantly better than that. :)

I don't know man! Forward looking if I could guarantee > 2%, I'd be thrilled. I just don't see too many opportunties in the market right now, but maybe I'm being too pessimistic. That said, I've been pessimistic for > 1 year now, and have missed a significant upside already. <-- IDIOTSRUS!
 
I don't know man! Forward looking if I could guarantee > 2%, I'd be thrilled. I just don't see too many opportunties in the market right now, but maybe I'm being too pessimistic. That said, I've been pessimistic for > 1 year now, and have missed a significant upside already. <-- IDIOTSRUS!

With a diversified portfolio I'm sure you can get more than a 2% ROI, assuming we don't hit another great recession :p

I financed 100% (minus the $2,500) also (I don't have that amount in cash, lol), but my thinking was I have higher APR items to take care of, so at 2%-3% it makes financial sense to take out as much as possible
 
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I don't know man! Forward looking if I could guarantee > 2%, I'd be thrilled. I just don't see too many opportunties in the market right now, but maybe I'm being too pessimistic. That said, I've been pessimistic for > 1 year now, and have missed a significant upside already. <-- IDIOTSRUS!

Easy. 2% of 100K is $2000 per year. Extrapolate and round up, you are looking at about $5000 for the 5 years. You pay less interest because interest is calculated on what you owe and you will lower your principal as you go. So it is not straight $2000 per year, but progressively less and less.

Last year i just made $2000 in stocks using about $20000 in capital. It was a great year. This year is harder for sure. But i got 4 years more to make the other $3000. Also i have more money to play with if i theoretically have $100K laying around. If I am a gambler, then I can probably make the $3000 pretty quickly by NOT diversifying and betting it all on a rise on TSLA stock.

With such low interest rates, it is better to use other people's money. : )
 
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I may have looked at the "battery size" issue from a different perspective as a Volt owner, but until the CPO came along I thought buying and carrying around a BIG battery for the few times a year I'd need it was a waste.

I thought it more efficient to use the GRID as my fuel tank rather than a BIGGER battery. I still feel that's the better solution (more plugs) not bigger batteries.

Maybe I'm off base here but isn't it cheaper to build MORE PLUGS?
 
I may have looked at the "battery size" issue from a different perspective as a Volt owner, but until the CPO came along I thought buying and carrying around a BIG battery for the few times a year I'd need it was a waste.

I thought it more efficient to use the GRID as my fuel tank rather than a BIGGER battery. I still feel that's the better solution (more plugs) not bigger batteries.

Maybe I'm off base here but isn't it cheaper to build MORE PLUGS?

If I understand your logic correctly, wouldn't it also argue why you would carry around that ICE in the Volt? Don't get me wrong, I love my 2011 Volt and will hand it to my kiddo.

But, given the choice of a bigger battery or an ICE, I'm now choosing to go with the bigger battery for those occasions I will need the additional range.
 
If I understand your logic correctly, wouldn't it also argue why you would carry around that ICE in the Volt? Don't get me wrong, I love my 2011 Volt and will hand it to my kiddo.

But, given the choice of a bigger battery or an ICE, I'm now choosing to go with the bigger battery for those occasions I will need the additional range.

Yes and no, at the time I bought our Volt that was all I could afford. But I'm stretching to buy a Tesla 85Kw for the range too.
 
Maybe I'm off base here but isn't it cheaper to build MORE PLUGS?

You're not entirely off base but there are a few realities you have to consider.

1) Charging takes time. A bigger battery isn't just about range, it's also about time. The larger battery can capture more charge when you don't need the car so you have to spend less time when you want to be moving charging the car.

2) It's going to take time to build more of those plugs. Fast charging is still very limited. Tesla has built out an impressive network, but for at least another year or two you're still going to have significant dead spots. Which means you're going to use slower chargers. The slower the charger the more the penalty is of having a smaller battery.

3) People are not entirely rational. ICE infrastructure has acclimated people to the idea they can go anywhere anytime without any planning. Because you have to go somewhere to fill up and only do so somewhat irregularly it's made people expect that sort of behavior with EVs. Even though filling up more often when you're not using the vehicle and it's sitting idle is more convenient for 99% of the time.

4) The bigger battery gives you more room for degradation without losing your required range (presuming you don't really need the full range of the car as most people really don't). It also means that you can not cycle the battery as deep, which is supposedly better for the battery.

Long term I expect fast charging infrastructure will become very common and thus the above won't be as important. I expect people to understand the advantages of an EV better. I expect battery technology to improve. But we're not there yet.
 
You're not entirely off base but there are a few realities you have to consider.

1) Charging takes time. A bigger battery isn't just about range, it's also about time. The larger battery can capture more charge when you don't need the car so you have to spend less time when you want to be moving charging the car.

2) It's going to take time to build more of those plugs. Fast charging is still very limited. Tesla has built out an impressive network, but for at least another year or two you're still going to have significant dead spots. Which means you're going to use slower chargers. The slower the charger the more the penalty is of having a smaller battery.

3) People are not entirely rational. ICE infrastructure has acclimated people to the idea they can go anywhere anytime without any planning. Because you have to go somewhere to fill up and only do so somewhat irregularly it's made people expect that sort of behavior with EVs. Even though filling up more often when you're not using the vehicle and it's sitting idle is more convenient for 99% of the time.

4) The bigger battery gives you more room for degradation without losing your required range (presuming you don't really need the full range of the car as most people really don't). It also means that you can not cycle the battery as deep, which is supposedly better for the battery.

Long term I expect fast charging infrastructure will become very common and thus the above won't be as important. I expect people to understand the advantages of an EV better. I expect battery technology to improve. But we're not there yet.

thanks for the thoughtful response, you brought up points I hadn't considered before.

old dogs can learn new tricks. Thanks