TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

70D vs 85D help to make decision please

Discussion in 'Model S: Ordering, Production, Delivery' started by sidmini, Dec 1, 2015.

  1. sidmini

    sidmini New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2015
    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    london
    Hi Guys,


    Can you help me decide the picking a 70D with a good spec or a basic 85D:


    OPTION 1 -
    70D
    MC RED
    NEXT GEN LEATHER SEATS
    PANO
    AUTOPILOT
    SMART AIR SUSPENSION


    OPTION 2-
    85D
    STANDARD BLACK LEATHER SEATS
    AUTOPILOT


    Which one would you go for? The 85D still works out to be 2k more expensive with this low spec level.


    Thanks
     
  2. Panu

    Panu Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2015
    Messages:
    280
    Location:
    Uusimaa, Finland
    - AWD not needed usually, reduces frunk space. more noise etc.
    - MC RED is too expensive in my opinion
    - I like non leather seats more than leather seats, make sure to test both
    - Pano, more head space espeacially in rear seats where it's needed, possibility to add roof rack, more noise
    - Autopilot can be added also later, restrictions coming
    - Air, if you really need that ground clearance then you have to take it. Of course low setting also makes it look cooler. If these don't matter then why not save some money with coils.
     
  3. sidmini

    sidmini New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2015
    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    london
    Or even a 90D with just standard leather seats and no autopilot (can be added later) ?
     
  4. Panu

    Panu Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2015
    Messages:
    280
    Location:
    Uusimaa, Finland
    It's always a good idea to buy the biggest battery you can get. I just hate the fact it requires dual motors.
     
  5. sidmini

    sidmini New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2015
    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    london
    Thanks Panu, what are the restriction on the autopilot? also are the multi patterned seats hard wearing, are they easy to clean?
     
  6. svp6

    svp6 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    297
    Location:
    MN
    That is a little off, don't you think? Dual motor is key to improved range, not to mention better handling in winter / rain. Noise is trivial.

    Bigger battery is always important. Go 85D.
     
  7. Panu

    Panu Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2015
    Messages:
    280
    Location:
    Uusimaa, Finland
    Elon said restrictions are coming but nobody knows what, hopefully only something like you have to be on driver's seat.

    For me it looks like the non leather seats are harder wearing than leather. They are also easy to clean with a wet cloth.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Based on the real life tests I've read there is very little range imrovement if any.
     
  8. WannabeOwner

    WannabeOwner Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2015
    Messages:
    725
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    My 2p-worth

    Pano - useful for tall people (perhaps in rear seats only?), and for roofbox if you need it (and some after market things like coat-hooks as no grab handles).

    Might leak?, over time, colder in winter (Bjorg insulated his because he found the cold from it uncomfortable, I know hiw Norway is colder than our UK, but I'm sensitive to how many kWh might be needed for Heat rather than Drive; also our architect advised us not to have glass roof in fancy new kitchen because cold air, next to glass, would "fall" in winter creating draught. No idea if that scales/applies to Pano though)

    Air Suspension - if very steep driveway, off the road, which might catch the nose/tail. If lots of sleeping policemen on certain roads you travel on frequently (GPS will remember where you raised the suspension). Possible better efficiency at motorway speeds. If you have a rough track to your weekend pad then almost certainly required.

    None of these things are enough for me, and I think "one more thing to go wrong"

    Battery size. If you do longer trips, particularly if regularly, then I would go for largest battery. You are in UK not USA? so I figure that a long trip isn't a motorway cruise from London to Edinburgh with a Supercharger every 2 hours but rather A-to-B-to-C-to-D. Might be a supercharger along the route, but if you are not a BEV driver already you are probably used to pressing-on at 80-whatever, rather than drop speed to 50 or wanting/expecting to make supercharger/Ecotricity stops. If you have small kids, or a weak bladder!!, then stops every couple of hours, and charge at the same time, will be fine. Supercharger network in UK not ideal, yet, but enough Ecotricity etc. to get the job done, albeit a bit slower. Battery will deteriorate, somewhat, over time. Bigger battery will have more reserve with time, and also when weather is foul/cold/windy/wet/etc. or you want to do 80 rather than 60.

    The 85 battery will charge faster (more miles-add per unit time) at a supercharger than a 70 (I think it is strictly in the ratio 70:85, if so then 21% faster in an 85)

    AWD - We fit winter tyres to all our cars. Snow here (East Anglia) for a few days each year, at most, and significant / prolonged snow only once a decade or less. We find that Winter Tyres make an enormous difference. But I live in the country and last 5 miles to home is never gritted in Winter, for someone in town may not be necessary; even in wet, when temperature below 10C, they are better, and if you want to drive to ski resort once a year then winter tyres are magic for that and avoid need for chains on ploughed, but snow-packed, French mountain roads (for example). We used to have 4WD sports (didn't know about winter tyres then), then changed to smaller eco cars and missed 4WD in Winter, then learnt about winter tyres, now we are happy not to have 4WD. However, AWD + Winter Tyres would be my ideal, but I've done French mountain snow-packed road in FWD + Snow tires and easily overtaken everyone with chains and with completely safe stopping distance.

    Some people mention that Frunk is smaller - I think the cargo space, overall, is MASSIVE, so unless you have something you specifically want to store, and leave, in the Frunk (I've heard Child Buggie/Stroller mentioned) then I am doubtful that the AWD loss of Frunk space is significant.

    AWD as I understand it has two, different, sized motors. So at motorway cruising just the motor with best efficiency for motorway speed can be used, whereas single motor is a one-size compromise. I suspect this is what leads to better range - so if your "range" is all motorway you may be better than advertised (whcih I presume is based on a "mix", if only in town then no difference or a negative?

    Auto-pilot. If you are buying new then retrofitted is GBP 500 (I think) more than included in initial purchase. If you are buying used then its probably "free" compared to a car without it. Either way, for that reason, it will help 2nd hand value (but not recoup any additional initial expenditure).

    All that said, I'm not an owner, so this is just from what I have read. I'd welcome anyone correcting anything I have got wrong, and other opinions on the "subjective bits" :)
     
  9. tstafford

    tstafford Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2015
    Messages:
    790
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Another two cents:
    - I'd do all I could to get the 85D over the 70D. I think you'll enjoy it more
    - I suppose AWD is an option, but I think it's well worth it
    - Next gen seats are excellent, but if I wasn't getting them I'd forgo leather in favor of saving money
    - AP is awesome. I wouldn't buy w/o it
    - Everything else is an option IMHO. I'd happily buy an 85D with AP and next gens in a heartbeat if I was shopping today
     
  10. sidmini

    sidmini New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2015
    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    london
    Thanks wannabeowner . TStafford I see you have a nicely specced out p85d so you know which options are really worth it. I am considering the 90D with standard leather to save costs nothing else..I hope I won't miss the other bits
     
  11. tstafford

    tstafford Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2015
    Messages:
    790
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Thanks. Knowing what I know now I would pass on pano and premium if I was doing it again. And I'd go 85D over the P85D.
     
  12. rcarpen22

    rcarpen22 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2014
    Messages:
    185
    Location:
    MD
    I have test driven pretty much everything at this point. But I did a 70D and 90D on the same day back to back. By all means, if you can get the 90D, do it. I would have, but I just couldn't find the extra 10k without doing financially unwise things.
     
  13. WannabeOwner

    WannabeOwner Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2015
    Messages:
    725
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    No experience of it, but I am guessing that until I own it I won't know how essential it is ?

    Central locking
    Heated seats
    Climate control
    Cruise control
    --
    Dish washer
    Induction cooking
    Boiling hot water tap
    Whole house vacuum cleaner
    ...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Interesting. Can you elaborate please?

    What's your driving mix? Urban / rural / motorway??

    Are you an ex-sportscar owner, or something more sedate?

    Just looking for info to help my purchasing decision. I was all set on the Performance model (but I can't justify the cost/benefit for Ludicrous)
     
  14. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Messages:
    4,873
    Location:
    NoVa
  15. tstafford

    tstafford Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2015
    Messages:
    790
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Here's a link to my initial impressions of the car. (Week One Observations - Nashville P85D)

    I just don't think it's worth the $20K to go from the 85D to the P85D. The handling characteristics of the car are such that it's not all that fun to drive from that perspective. Adding power doesn't address that issue. The car is an amazing driving machine - it's just not a sports car.
     
  16. GasKilla

    GasKilla No Gas Know Peace

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2015
    Messages:
    418
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Look at it this way, you are paying $10k for 30 miles of added range for the 85D. Is that worth it to you? Are you driving so far that an extra 30 miles will mean the difference between finding a charger or getting stranded? I'll bet most people can get by with a 70D and a little bit of planning.
     
    • Like x 1
  17. Model S M.D.

    Model S M.D. Ludicrous Radiologist

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2015
    Messages:
    724
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Awesome post in that thread! I wasn't previously aware of Visible Tesla either. I've got a software background too and appreciate all of the technology Tesla has to offer as well.

    I test drove both the P85D and 85D and feel the 85D is plenty fast for me and worth the 20K savings. However, we'll see if I'm longing for a P90DL once I take ownership of my 85D :)
     
  18. Ugliest1

    Ugliest1 S85: "Sparky"

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2013
    Messages:
    889
    Location:
    Victoria BC Canada
    [​IMG] Originally Posted by Panu [​IMG]
    - AWD not needed usually, reduces frunk space. more noise etc.





    I have an S85 (rear wheel drive). In September's Drive Electric Week, I was taking people out for rides. It was raining lightly and the roads were slightly slick. I was taking people out for rides to get them to experience electric drive. On one part of a roadway, I stomped it to show the Model S' acceleration; with the roads a bit slick, the computer did its best but there was jiggling from the rear and slight auto-corrected slipping, so not enough traction to really show what was possible.

    Another fellow at DEW had an 85D (June 2015). I asked him to give me a ride and go to the same spot and see what happens. OMG. Just OMG. He floored it and the car took off, no slipping whatsoever, like he was on dry pavement. So, I had an education that day on just how well the AWD performs.

    Note, this was done on a road with no traffic and we were both careful to shut down the high accel after only a few seconds.

    I really was amazed... blown away... incredulous... at the AWD performance.
     
  19. WannabeOwner

    WannabeOwner Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2015
    Messages:
    725
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Very useful early impressions, thanks. I think your comment of "It’s a GT not a sports car IMHO" sums it up, and I'll be happy with that. I have a 500kg (is that 1,000 USA pounds?) V8 for when I want noise and to sling the tail out for 100 yards each time I make a turn at a junction! Sedan driving, for me, is about comfort - arriving relaxed - but enough grunt to overtake on a side road when I need to. Gone are the days when I want to sling the car around a blind bend on a narrow road - did that more than I should have done in my youth, and pleased to say I've grown out of it :)

    Only thing I do like, which I might still do? is with a car behind, perhaps interested in the tail-badge and trying to figure whether it is what they think / performs as they think, and approaching a roundabout that isn't too huge a radius. In the V8 I can come onto it a good 10 MPH faster than most other cars, and leave it flat out ... such that when the car behind me exits the roundabout I'm already a long way down the road. I expect Mr T is going to be able to do that too - if it objects to trying to enter the roundabout +10MPH I'll live with just the fast exit and disappearing into the distance. There aren't THAT many occasions when I am wanting to be that childish!

    - - - Updated - - -

    For me I think that might well be the difference between getting home from a business day-trip, and having to charge before getting home - particularly if weather is a bit rough. It seems that owners become comfortable with running range quite tight, when they get to know the car, but I'm thinking I'm more Chicken than that and would prefer to have enough miles in hand for a detour because of road-block / road works etc. and thus always arriving home with 30 miles spare would suit me better.
     
  20. bart513

    bart513 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2013
    Messages:
    979
    Location:
    East Hampton
    For me the extra 30 miles makes a huge difference in terms of my weekly drive from NY to NJ. Especially in colder weather I don't have to fret to reach my destination. If range is not an issue you save money with the 70 over the 85. Many owners of the 70 have commented that they wish they had gotten the 85. The D versus non D is another discussion:)
     

Share This Page