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70D vs. 90D Speed Regrets?

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by bswn1, Feb 20, 2016.

  1. bswn1

    bswn1 Member

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    Placed my order a few weeks ago and moving into production in another few weeks of my 70D. However, I've never actually driven a 70 before (bought it completely drive(?) unseen :confused:) ... until today.

    I was able to find a local dealership that had one in available for test driving in almost my exact configuration. I made a dumb decision by driving a 90D minutes before that just to really see the difference. There's definitely a massive change in acceleration and seemed to be a bit of a different driving experience, but I'm not sure if that was mostly psychological on my part. Immediately afterwards I began to regret my decision and consider a 90D configuration vs. the 70D I've already ordered.

    On the depressing drive back home in my ICE, I started to wonder if my issue isn't completely psychological.

    I'm very curious to hear from current 70D owners if the 70 feels like "enough"? Do you have any regrets? I find it hard to believe I would actually be able to tell the difference between a 70 and 90 in my daily driving, and it seems that even if I went with the 90, eventually it would start to feel 'normal' and I would have just spent $13k to upgrade for something that long term didn't make much of a difference at all.

    Any issues with highway speed passing in specific for the 70 owners out there?

    Please, save me from myself TMC :)
     
  2. gene

    gene Active Member

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    No worries, relax. I have been driving an S85 for 3 years. It feels frickin' fast and passes anything you want. A 70D is even faster.
     
  3. pcdefl

    pcdefl Member

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    If it is of any use to you, my experience: I considered a 70D or a 85D, no 90 for me, having the choice of the 85 I considered it was more than enough, the difference to the 90 did not make sense, it had to be between the 70 or the 85, both D. Tried to test them, they were never available. Well, the time they were available it was a decision of choosing to test drive the 70D or the P85D with Insane. My reptilian brain chose immediately the P85D Insane for the sake of "I might never get the chance again, let's go for it". That means I did not drive the 70D. When I tried to test drive the 85D they were never available. Soooo, long story short: ordered the 85D without test drive and just because it would give me more range and a bit less time waiting charging at the Superchargers. The day I did drive my car (January 18th 2016) I got it out of the garage, where it stayed for 3 weeks (yes, 3!) waiting for the registration plates (yes, that dumb). I was nervous. Tried to accelerate on my wife's request "Can you see how fast it accelerates?" I tried to oblige. It did not react much... Tried again. The same behavior. I thought may be it could do better. And indeed it could, provided it wasn't in Valet mode: I forgot to take it out of Valet mode :) After that it was ok, very very ok :) So, relax, you will have plenty of power, just remember not to drive in Valet mode :)
     
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  4. bswn1

    bswn1 Member

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    Haha, great story!
     
  5. 3 G's

    3 G's Member

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    I bought a 70 model last December and have always wondered if I should have bought a P85 instead. The 70 has PLENTY of power. As a matter of fact, too much power if you have your grandchildren with you. The first time my grandsons (9,7,5) rode in the 70, I've only had it for a couple of weeks so needless to say, I would try to step on the pedal any chance I get. Entering the freeway, I had to cross 4 lanes in less than miles which I did in a few seconds. After I returned to normal speed, oldest and second grandsons said they were feeling sick and the second wanted to throw up. I looked back and he was very pale. Needless to say, I drive conservatively when they're in the 70.

    He tells his mom and dad that "everytime I ride in grandpa's car I get "emotional" sickness". LOL
     
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  6. jmsurpri

    jmsurpri Member

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    I have an 85D in production. I chose the 85D for the acceleration and range. I've owned cars with similar perf as the 70D and wanted something with a bit extra since I am spending so much more. The 85D/90D seems to be the sweet spot for Model S. Acceleration better than most cars and the best epa range. Personally I think I would have regretted getting a 70D. Sorry, not what you want to hear :(
     
  7. f-stop

    f-stop Member

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    I've had my 70D for almost 3 months, no regrets. I don't think you need to worry about it for daily driving, or highway passing etc - it's plenty fast IMO.

    On paper it's faster than my previous car (2001 S4) even though the Model S is about 1000lbs heavier.
    FWIW, a few days ago I had a loaner 2014 Model S 85 (i.e. RWD) while my car was at the Service Center - I don't know the exact specs of the 85 but it definitely felt slower than my 70D when accelerating hard. I think your choice of 70 vs 90 should really be based on range you need, not acceleration.
     
  8. Beryl

    Beryl Member

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    I think the 70D is fast -- faster than most other vehicles you'll need to pass. I drove a 70, 70D and the 70D which felt faster.

    I mainly purchased the 90D for the range, not the acceleration. I don't believe I'd regret the 70D speed at all.
     
  9. Lennox

    Lennox Member

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    Don't own a Tesla as yet but test driven a few and the 70D is enough for real life, the 90D on a no regrets test drive is awesome but licence restrictive in the long run. Be thankful you're getting a Tesla at all!!! Enjoy!! Plus that can be next time!!!
     
  10. benfrank3

    benfrank3 Member

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    I owned a S85 for 26 months until an unfortunate incident with an animal. Impatient to wait for the repairs which took 3 months, I bought an inventory 70D and then sold the S85 after it was fixed. There's a big power difference between the 2 vehicles, here's what I've noticed.
    The S85 has a pretty linear acceleration line. From zero to 100 the "pull" never lets up. Passing on the freeway is intense because of the torque. It's unforgettable.
    The 70D is not at all linear. Off the line it's pretty good to 60 MPH, I'd say 85 (LOL) percent of the S85. But as you go faster your "pull" gets lighter the faster you go. Passing on the freeway is fun, and better than an ICE car but nothing like the 85.
    This forum has other details on this... but basically the difference is tied to the battery. The 85 and 90 battery are 400 volts while the 70 battery is 350 volts. Less power = less power. The dual motor tends to compensate for this in zero to 60 but doesn't help as you go faster.
    I miss the 85... I never lost a race in it, annihilated everything. I still love my 70D but I wouldn't race it... really, it's probably better for me because I found myself always blasting down the highways well above the limits because you got there so fast. The 70 keeps me more civilized but I really miss it. If I had this information before I bought the second car, I would have made a different choice.
     
  11. bswn1

    bswn1 Member

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    Interesting thanks for the perspective. To confirm yours was an 85 not an 85D right?
     
  12. ForeverFree

    ForeverFree Member

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    Was going to order a 70D. Wife convinced me to go 85D.

    Have appreciated the modest extra range when going up to Mammoth or to the Central Coast.

    And, have definitely enjoyed the acceleration. Does whatever is needed, getting on freeways, etc.

    Did experience a P85D loaner. Insane mode was just that, fun as a parlor trick, but left me positively woozy.

    My two cents: Don't spend this kind of money, only to have lingering doubts. Pay the $13K (and the $500 change fee), get the 90D, and don't spend the next four years wondering "What if ..."

    0-60 in 4.2. 288 miles rated range. You'll never regret it for a moment. Life is short!
     
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  13. byan1232

    byan1232 Member

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    i couldn't agree more!
     
  14. thegruf

    thegruf Member

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    ^this
     
  15. chriSharek

    chriSharek Member

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    I agree completely. I'm 60 days from delivery and actually just upgraded from my 85D order to the 90D order. Range is King. If you haven't heard that yet, it will soon be your mantra - especially when you go to trade it in someday.

    I've been driving a 2011 Volt now for almost 5 years. When I testdrove the 70, I really felt like the acceleration of the 70 wasn't a whole lot faster than my Volt (sorry 70 owners). But, when I drove the 85D (without the insane mode on) it was NOTICEABLY different.

    For these TWO reasons, I think the 10k upgrade is definitely worth it. Perhaps you can forego some of the other options like SAS, pano, and the UHFS and upgrade to the 90. Just a thought. I understand trying to stay within a budget.

    - - - Updated - - -

    ^ this again!
     
  16. ForeverFree

    ForeverFree Member

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    #16 ForeverFree, Feb 21, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2016
    Go for It!

    Further Overnight Thoughts

    When making "engine" decision on cars, logic used to be:

    Extra cost of bigger engine

    divided by

    # of times I'd actually need acceleration

    This invariably yielded a silly and indefensible number like $500 or $1000 per zoom. And, I'd tuck my head and buy the base engine, as I did with my BMW 330xi in 2004.

    Then I had an epiphany in 2011. Seven-year-old 3-series was starting to have problems. Two months of searching had failed to yield the AWD, stick-shift BMW which I had sought (tough to find here in So Cal). Two minutes of searching immediately produced a manual, quattro drive Audi. However, it was an S4, not A4. Went for it.

    And, then the light dawned. In the $$$/zoom fraction, the denominator was not the number of times you actually needed to zoom. Nor even the (much larger) number of times that you just decided that you wanted to zoom. It was the countless instants -- every instant in the life of your car -- when you smiled in the happy realization that you could zoom. That brought the extra cost from $5000/10 zooms = $500/zoom down to $5000/1500 days = $3/day.

    And, even that had to be slashed by at least 50% ... the fraction of the extra cost that would remain a part of the vehicle's residual value at trade-in time or lease end. So, roughly a buck or two a day in order to drive around with a perpetual grin.

    And, of course, that was before I discovered the TESLA grin! Mere knowledge of the extra power lying dormant beneath my right foot makes every second that I drive my MS that much grinnier. To say nothing of the moments when I actually use the right-foot grin-inducer. Yesterday afternoon found me stuck in a blob of glue-like drivers who were clogging up both lanes of a surface street. Then, two of the glue-drivers remained in front of me as I entered the on-ramp for a freeway. And, of course, both insisted on crawling into the left (car-pool) lane of the short on ramp. Was going to make for a frustrating -- and dangerous -- merge into freeway traffic. Instead, enter right ramp lane, depress right foot, and rocket past shocked glue merchants. Hit top of ramp at 92 mph, use right-foot regen (way more fun than manual-trans downshifts) to ease back into the 75 mph flow of traffic and smile all the way home.

    We all play the justification game. Price of the Tesla is indefensibly high. So, we start with the 70. I actually eased into Tesla-purchase $$$ lunacy by pricing out a 60. Base model. No "need" for anything more. Who needs extra acceleration? Who needs extra range that will be used only on a few road trips each year (same fraction calculation as with engine size). Who needs better sound system? Pano roof and Sirius? Better seats? Auto-pilot?

    Over time, though, and remembering the Audi S4 epiphany, I opted for all of them. Even added a second charger and an LTE upgrade after purchase. Along with every charging adapter Tesla makes/made. And, haven't regretted any of these upgrades for a single instant.

    This is going to be by far the best car you've ever owned. And, every morning, even work days, you'll awake with the smiling realization of "Hey, I get to drive my Tesla!" Don't stint. Double down. Forget about the need to self-justify. Just join the rest of us and revel in the adventure!!
     
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  17. chriSharek

    chriSharek Member

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    What Foreverfree said, and then add the extra range, then forgeddabodit!
     
  18. bswn1

    bswn1 Member

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    You guys are making my life so much more complicated :)

    Going to seriously consider the upgrade cost. Also, not sure if they'll even let me make changes a week and a half out from production, will email my DS and find out.
     
  19. liuping

    liuping Active Member

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    When I bought my first Model S it was by far the most expensive car I ever purchased, so I "only" bought the basic S85 (no sunroof, no air suspension, no premium audio or interior).

    P95 loaners made me realize I'd made a mistake (at the time the delta when ordering was only about $10k). I always regretted that, and you should not have regrets when spending that kind of money!


    Last year I finally upgraded to a 90D. It is very close to the original P85 performance, but far more sure footed (the P85 also slipped little, unless the road was absolutely perfect condition).

    I absolutely love it and have no regrets this time. P90D loaners make me slightly light headed, and I don't have any feeling of "I should have got this" when I drive them.

    I think it is the sweet spot in performance, range and price. It has more range and better performance than the 70D, and much lower cost than the P90D.
     
  20. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

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    #20 Max*, Feb 22, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2016
    I did about 3-4 test drives before I decided on the 70D (never drove a 90D, just an 85D, but they're the same acceleration wise).

    The 85D is noticeably faster, no argument there. But I was coming from a 6 second car down to a 5 second car. After 8 months with my 70D, I have no regrets. I rarely ever floor it, so the power of the 85D would have been wasted on me.

    YMMV

    ETA: I was going to get an 85D originally, because at the time it was 60 vs. 85D, and the 60 didn't have the range I needed. After the 70D came out, enough range, enough power, and saved me $10k (I wasn't going to compromise on the options I wanted, you only buy a car once ever X years), I was completely sold.
     

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