70D vs. 90D Speed Regrets?

[Lex]

It's this easy: buy the pack you can afford. Especially for areas prone to cold weather.

I love my 70D and sure, I admit to making myself feel better imagining that this is really the Model 3 prototype with the magic power-weight ratios and motor size balances and motor stress ratios all exactly right for a daily driver that can last at at least 200,000 miles with minimal servicing and no milling noises. But I've driven 85's in similar conditions and both cars are heavy (cold kills regen so you get to feel how heavy these cars really are) and I've driven a P85 with 30k km's and the milling noise so whatever. Buy what you can afford and enjoy your ticket to the (near) future :love:

Oh and when the pack is warm enough it performs impressively.. best I've heard explained is "it's a Tesla".

 

[brianman]

@Max
I tried to capture your approach of "premium vs 70D" with mine of "incremental cost as you move up the product line". I also split out a separate table that ignores the "Dest&DocFee" and the Federal Tax Credit. After doing so the new table went negative, so I dropped the AWD cost from $2,000 to $1,500 (in both tables). Hopefully this captures it correctly...

 

[bswn1]

Have to admit that this went way farther down the rabbit hole than I had originally anticipated... have been keeping a close eye and I'm loving the analysis.

If anyone is wondering I decided to stick with the 70D. Currently scheduled to go to production in less than a week according to my contact. Cannot wait!

 

[brianman]

Currently scheduled to go to production in less than a week according to my contact. Cannot wait!

Awesome. You'll love it. Note that I didn't even quote which choice you went with -- because it'll be great regardless.

 

[Max*]

@Max
I tried to capture your approach of "premium vs 70D" with mine of "incremental cost as you move up the product line". I also split out a separate table that ignores the "Dest&DocFee" and the Federal Tax Credit. After doing so the new table went negative, so I dropped the AWD cost from $2,000 to $1,500 (in both tables). Hopefully this captures it correctly...

Wow, using these statistics the acceleration increase on the 90D compared to a 70D really is beyond free.

The table works for me:thumbsup:

Your excel sheet has 2k for the AWD premium, not that it really matters

Have to admit that this went way farther down the rabbit hole than I had originally anticipated... have been keeping a close eye and I'm loving the analysis.

If anyone is wondering I decided to stick with the 70D. Currently scheduled to go to production in less than a week according to my contact. Cannot wait!

I'm an engineering geek, so I enjoy the math.


O, I forgot to add an actual minor regret I have -- I got the RFS and my kids sometimes use them, sometimes complain. But without the UHFS, there are no speakers in the trunk, so they complain that they can barely hear the music. I plan on getting the NVX sub after they stop using the seats, but that wont fix the lack of speakers in the trunk short term (and I'm not paying for REUS, I'm really not an audiophile).

 

[FlatSix911]

Great example of virtual collaboration to create a meaningful chart ... well done!

@Max
I tried to capture your approach of "premium vs 70D" with mine of "incremental cost as you move up the product line". I also split out a separate table that ignores the "Dest&DocFee" and the Federal Tax Credit. After doing so the new table went negative, so I dropped the AWD cost from $2,000 to $1,500 (in both tables). Hopefully this captures it correctly...

View attachment 112886

 

[JonG]

Your 0-60 times are inconsistent as they're using a different basis (1' roll out v genuine 0)- to realign knock off 0.3s to the non performance cars which will make them look even more attractive.

 

[bswn1]

Your 0-60 times are inconsistent as they're using a different basis (1' roll out v genuine 0)- to realign knock off 0.3s to the non performance cars which will make them look even more attractive.

Wait what? Is that including the 70D? Source?

 

[JonG]

Wait what? Is that including the 70D? Source?

Tesla state (in small print at the bottom of the web page) that performance (P) cars all use one foot roll out, the other models don't including the 70(D)

There is no tesla published figure using a consistent metric across all models however 85d and 90d are frequently appearing in videos sub 4s. The 0.3 was just an average levelling figure. A 70 will certainly be quicker using one foot roll out as its basis, whether it's exactly 0.3 I don't know.

 

[brianman]

Your excel sheet has 2k for the AWD premium, not that it really matters

Yah, I noticed after I uploaded that Excel hadn't saved that last tweak. Sorry 'bout that.

- - - Updated - - -

Your 0-60 times are inconsistent as they're using a different basis (1' roll out v genuine 0)- to realign knock off 0.3s to the non performance cars which will make them look even more attractive.

I, and I think others, chose to use the Tesla published numbers without attention to asterisks -- because doing otherwise moves into a dozen other debate threads.

 

[FlatSix911]

Interesting information on the acceleration data ... so the corrected 0-60 times are:
70 - 5.2 Seconds
70D - 4.9 Seconds
It would be great to see verification from independent testing of all models.

Your 0-60 times are inconsistent as they're using a different basis (1' roll out v genuine 0)- to realign knock off 0.3s to the non performance cars which will make them look even more attractive.

Wait what? Is that including the 70D? Source?

Tesla state (in small print at the bottom of the web page) that performance (P) cars all use one foot roll out, the other models don't including the 70(D)
There is no tesla published figure using a consistent metric across all models however 85d and 90d are frequently appearing in videos sub 4s. The 0.3 was just an average levelling figure. A 70 will certainly be quicker using one foot roll out as its basis, whether it's exactly 0.3 I don't know.

 

[evosteve]

Our 70 S was delivered just before the new year and we have absolutely no regrets. We opted to spend the money on other options we would have regretted such as pano roof, 21" wheels, next gen seats upgraded interior and of course Autopilot.

We did the overnight test drive of a P85D, took it on a road trip from Orlando to Clearwater and I have to say the speed was awesome. While I've owned and driven some pretty quick cars my impression of the P85D was like driving the space shuttle. I got to do some driving alone at night and did some launches with the AC and stereo off, windows down and the dead silence. To then only hear the tires grabbing the road and science fiction like sound of the electric motor it was awesome! The fun of that and driving around looking for some of the high end sports cars running around to make them look dumb in a street race was a blast and reminded me of the stupid fun days of 15-20 years ago out street racing on a Saturday night.

While our overnight demo car was a P85D the car had NO options other than autopilot. The seats were uncomfortable and the interior felt like a base model Honda while the outside with the 19" wheels didn't give the car the look it deserves with the 21's.

While I was concerned about how much less power the 70 would have vs the P85D we drove I was luck that they got a 70 in I could drive before placing our order. In addition to that I drove a 2015 Corvette stingray before heading up to drive the 70. It was still way more fun to drive the 70 than the 455hp Corvette. The instant response and always there torque made the Corvette feel clunky and not as fast as the 70.

Even with the 70 me and my wife still find ourselves driving too fast. Passing and pulling out in traffic is a breeze and couldn't imagine not having done the upgrades we did.

I'd make your decision based on your budget and what's important to you. Remember any Model S you choose is going to be a blast to drive and have better response than any ICE.

Congrats and Good luck!

 

[Pdub2015]

Amazing post.

 

[FlatSix911]

Steve, thanks for sharing the unvarnished truth.
Buying the 70 or 70D is the way to go along with the options to make the car really enjoyable ... next gen seats, autopilot, etc.

Our 70 S was delivered just before the new year and we have absolutely no regrets. We opted to spend the money on other options we would have regretted such as pano roof, 21" wheels, next gen seats upgraded interior and of course Autopilot.

We did the overnight test drive of a P85D, took it on a road trip from Orlando to Clearwater and I have to say the speed was awesome. While I've owned and driven some pretty quick cars my impression of the P85D was like driving the space shuttle. I got to do some driving alone at night and did some launches with the AC and stereo off, windows down and the dead silence. To then only hear the tires grabbing the road and science fiction like sound of the electric motor it was awesome! The fun of that and driving around looking for some of the high end sports cars running around to make them look dumb in a street race was a blast and reminded me of the stupid fun days of 15-20 years ago out street racing on a Saturday night.

While our overnight demo car was a P85D the car had NO options other than autopilot. The seats were uncomfortable and the interior felt like a base model Honda while the outside with the 19" wheels didn't give the car the look it deserves with the 21's. While I was concerned about how much less power the 70 would have vs the P85D we drove I was luck that they got a 70 in I could drive before placing our order. In addition to that I drove a 2015 Corvette stingray before heading up to drive the 70. It was still way more fun to drive the 70 than the 455hp Corvette. The instant response and always there torque made the Corvette feel clunky and not as fast as the 70.

Even with the 70 me and my wife still find ourselves driving too fast. Passing and pulling out in traffic is a breeze and couldn't imagine not having done the upgrades we did. I'd make your decision based on your budget and what's important to you. Remember any Model S you choose is going to be a blast to drive and have better response than any ICE.

Congrats and Good luck!

Amazing post.

 

[ifung90]

I bought a p85D and I tell almost all my friends to buy a 70D instead as long as 1) no road trips every weekend and 2) install charger at home.

0-62 mph in 5 seconds is more than fast enough for most people. That's e90 m3 and c63 AMG stock speed.

Youre paying $13k more for 1 second faster. Mid range is good in most situations as the torque is immediate.

As others have said, after a while you just want to see if you can conserve range.

i mever turn turn on insane mode nowadays to try and go the extra mile.

 

[bswn1]

Grabbed it today.

Few things I'd like to discuss. First, the car feels naturally VERY quick. It's very quick in 0-30 especially and responds almost instantly. Once you get past 30 (to about 60) it is noticeably slower than the 90D, and once you get passed 60 it's much slower than the 90D. During normal traffic there wasn't many times I could really floor it so I'm not sure how practical the extra acceleration would actually be... it's mostly for people that want to just know it's there. There wasn't a single situation in the course of highway driving that I felt I wasn't getting the power I needed.

Regen breaking also doesn't feel as intense. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or bad thing, but it has to do with the fact that the 70 has much less torque. When I drove the 90, it felt like regen was doing double time compared to the 70, a feeling I liked.

Overall, no regrets. Great car and I'm very satisfied.

IF you're looking for speed as your #1 reason for getting this car, I'd recommend going with the 90D. If you're willing to compromise a bit and it's not as important to you or you're looking for something a bit more practical in that department, go for the 70D.

Obviously range is a huge factor but I haven't had it long enough to be able to speak on that.

 

[brianman]

Regen breaking also doesn't feel as intense. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or bad thing, but it has to do with the fact that the 70 has much less torque. When I drove the 90, it felt like regen was doing double time compared to the 70, a feeling I liked.

Make sure you double-check the setting of Regen (Standard vs. Low) when you compare vehicles.

 

[srthomas21]

Our 70 S was delivered just before the new year and we have absolutely no regrets. We opted to spend the money on other options we would have regretted such as pano roof, 21" wheels, next gen seats upgraded interior and of course Autopilot.

We did the overnight test drive of a P85D, took it on a road trip from Orlando to Clearwater and I have to say the speed was awesome. While I've owned and driven some pretty quick cars my impression of the P85D was like driving the space shuttle. I got to do some driving alone at night and did some launches with the AC and stereo off, windows down and the dead silence. To then only hear the tires grabbing the road and science fiction like sound of the electric motor it was awesome! The fun of that and driving around looking for some of the high end sports cars running around to make them look dumb in a street race was a blast and reminded me of the stupid fun days of 15-20 years ago out street racing on a Saturday night.

While our overnight demo car was a P85D the car had NO options other than autopilot. The seats were uncomfortable and the interior felt like a base model Honda while the outside with the 19" wheels didn't give the car the look it deserves with the 21's.

While I was concerned about how much less power the 70 would have vs the P85D we drove I was luck that they got a 70 in I could drive before placing our order. In addition to that I drove a 2015 Corvette stingray before heading up to drive the 70. It was still way more fun to drive the 70 than the 455hp Corvette. The instant response and always there torque made the Corvette feel clunky and not as fast as the 70.

Even with the 70 me and my wife still find ourselves driving too fast. Passing and pulling out in traffic is a breeze and couldn't imagine not having done the upgrades we did.

I'd make your decision based on your budget and what's important to you. Remember any Model S you choose is going to be a blast to drive and have better response than any ICE.

Congrats and Good luck!

I made the same choice as you. 70D loaded. Coming in about 2-3 weeks. Tonight I revisited this thread thinking maybe I made a mistake and shouldve gone with the 90D but I think the 70D loaded is going to be awesome.

 

[rcarpen22]

I really enjoyed this thread. I have a 70D and, as others have stated, it is fast. You cannot compare it with conventional cars with similar performance numbers. My wife's BMW has identical 0-60 and 1/4 mile numbers, but it is nowhere near as fast in the real world. The "classic" 85s are faster than 70D as well. Someone said 70D was not linear and classic 85 was. I disagree a little. They are just reversed. 85 lugs a little off the line and then takes off. 70D explodes off the line and then fizzles a bit. Both very quick. I would rather have a 90D than my 70D of course, but I don't have any regrets because I didn't really have the budget to go up to a 90. Next time Or max plaid roadster...

 

[chriSharek]

I made the same choice as you. 70D loaded. Coming in about 2-3 weeks. Tonight I revisited this thread thinking maybe I made a mistake and shouldve gone with the 90D but I think the 70D loaded is going to be awesome.

I think I ordered the same car as you - except the 90D instead of the 70D. During my test drive of the 70D, I couldn't really feel much difference from 0-30 from my Volt and the 70D. I haven't researched/scoured the internet to find that actually figures, but I just couldn't FEEL much difference. I drove a P85D and without the insane mode on, it's supposed to be the same as the 85D. So, I've never even driven an 85D let alone the 90D that I ordered, but I'm certainly counting down my days . . . 41 remaining.