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72 amp A/C charger on way out?

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by SabrToothSqrl, Apr 17, 2017.

  1. SabrToothSqrl

    SabrToothSqrl Active Member

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    So... what's the plan here?
    Tesla has a charger that is 72 amps. It is set to 48 amps and can be software set to 72 for some money.

    The simple fact is, it's the same hardware and thus same cost out the door.

    The new information that this 'option' has been removed has me curious.
    It's a software limitation. When the hardware leaves the factory, it cost Tesla (guessing) $3,000 for "either" option.

    So, I'm guessing here that this hardware, is on it's way out, and a newer, cheaper, 48 or 40 amp charger is and will be coming on all "non 100" models. 48 amp still doesn't make sense to me as the limiting factor is the NEMA outlet...

    Why else would you remove this? Putting it on just the 100s leaves it as a "high end only" option, to continue making the part. While a less expensive, non-software limited one makes it's way into the rest of the cars.

    Maybe not right away? Maybe once some of the post 5/1/17 cars make delivery someone could check their charger?

    Just a hunch, but you don't drop a profit center part unless you can make it cheaper. And... to be honest I don't see more than 20% of people doing the 48-->72 upgrade anyway... and even that feels high.
     
  2. vrykolas

    vrykolas Member

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    Not sure about 20% purchasing upgrade (we didn't) for our X90D. But if they drop the prices 80% to ~$300 USD like they dropped the price of the 60->75 battery software upgrade... I would probably upgrade to allow for faster AC charging at some L2 chargers.
     
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  3. MorrisonHiker

    MorrisonHiker S 90D 2017.28 c528869

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    Some other threads have speculated for months that the 72 amp charger was no longer being included. When the 48/72 amp charger option originally came out, I believe they were all able to be upgraded from 48 amps to 72 amps via a software update. More recently, some owners with newer builds reported they had to go to a Service Center in order to get the upgrade.
     
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  4. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    The original option was 40A/80A. The 80A was a big deal when I got my car because we only had level 2 chargers available. Now with Superchargers and Chademo out there that isn't such a big deal. Certainly 40A is fine for overnight home charging.

    My speculation is that, since the Superchargers are built on multiple car units, when they upgraded the Supercharger power theydid it by increasing the capacity of the individual car chargers.
     
  5. chillaban

    chillaban Active Member

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    FWIW, only for a brief period (right when the refreshed 70D was announced to shortly after the 60/60D was announced) were people given an 72A charger software-locked charger.

    Later on, they actually did make a bona-fide 48A cost-reduced charger, and it became a hardware difference.
     
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  6. SabrToothSqrl

    SabrToothSqrl Active Member

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    My bad. I thought it was a software only difference. In which case, it doesn't make much sense to remove from the non 100 cars, unless you really want to prioritize simple assembly.

    Yes, the original 40/80 charge was two separate physical chargers. Each at 40 amps. Hence the 2k upgrade, you are buying hardware...(and the install cost).
     
  7. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

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    It's 48A on the 75s and 90s, 72A on the 100s. No choices anymore. I think this is part of Tesla going more mainstream and most buyers don't understand the AC charger option anyway. How many times have we (and Tesla) answered questions about it from people who think that they need the higher amp charger for faster supercharging?
     
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  8. Rocky_H

    Rocky_H Active Member

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    This rumor just won't go away, but it is long outdated. I always refer people to @andrewket 's post here:
    Did anyone upgrade from 48 to 72 Amps?

    There was a short period early on with the Model X that was software locked, and he lays out the approximate time frame for that. By the time Tesla rolled the facelift changes over to the Model S, it was two separate parts, so the Model S has never had a software updateable charger.
     
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  9. SabrToothSqrl

    SabrToothSqrl Active Member

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    Got ch'ya. I thought it was a software upgrade. I didn't know it was back to two separate hardware devices.
     
  10. bob_p

    bob_p Active Member

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    We have an HPWC on a 100A circuit installed for our S P85.

    When the S 100D arrived, we moved the S P85 to use Tesla's 14-50 connector with a 14-50 outlet (about 30 MPH), and have the S 100D with the 48A charger connected to the HPWC (about 35 MPH).

    Since both are connected to the same 100A circuit - we can charge both cars at the same time, without concern about tripping the breaker on that circuit.

    Assuming that, worst case, we took the cars down to 10% and plan to charge back to 90% it takes both cars about 7 to 8 hours to fully charge, so charging at 40A for the 85 and 48A for the 100A works for overnight charging.

    Because of superchargers, we shouldn't need to recharge quickly at home - so the 72A probably isn't of much value for home charging.

    But, for road trips, if there are destination or commercial chargers running above 48A, we might benefit from having an HPWC - if we need to charge quickly at a location - and we aren't near a supercharger.

    But, if it's going to cost us $1500-$1900 to upgrade from the 48A to72A, the few (if ever) times we'd need more than 48A charging, may not be worth the extra $$.
     
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  11. Rocky_H

    Rocky_H Active Member

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    You are overloading the circuit and violating electric code. You need to adjust something.

    The reason the Tesla UMC will only draw 40A from a 14-50 is to comply with the requirement that for continuous loads, the circuit must be 125% of the continuous current draw. So 40A requires a 50A circuit. 48A requires a 60A circuit, etc. That's also why the HPWC setting for a 100A circuit is to feed 80A total to the car. That's all you are allowed to draw from a 100A circuit. Electric car charging is always defined as a continuous load in the NEC now. You are drawing 40A for the one car from the UMC and 48A for the other car from the HPWC. That's 88A continuous and would require a 110A circuit, but you said your circuit is a 100A, so you are overloading it.

    If you are going to use both at the same time like that, you need to change the configuration in the HPWC to set it as if it is a 50A circuit and only provides 40A as well.
     
  12. SabrToothSqrl

    SabrToothSqrl Active Member

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    Breakin' the law! breakin' the law!
     
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  13. MostlyStock

    MostlyStock Member

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    It is highly likely Tesla will have to redesign the current charging system for Supercharger V3. If the battery pack voltage is raised to 800 volts a DC to DC converter will be needed just to be compatible with the existing superchargers. 100 kWh packs will get Supercharger V3 first and forcing 72 amp chargers makes the move easier by having only one charging configuration. Forcing 48 amp chargers on everything else makes it so Tesla will only need to make two different chargers at all stages of the Supercharger V3 roll out.
     
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  14. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

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    I don't see what one has to do with the other. Supercharging bypasses the AC charger. Also whatever version 3 supercharging turns out to be, saying that 100 kWh batteries will get it first is just pure speculation on your part without any reasoning to back it up.
     
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