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75 S and X discontinued

Discussion in 'Model S' started by fasteddie7, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    Yes but I would not use the term “midrange”. I think that will be the range of the base version, and Tesla won’t use the term “base”, either. It will simply be the EPA number for the lowest cost S/X version. The higher capacity battery pack that gives the higher EPA number will be the “Long Range” option.
     
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  2. Olle

    Olle Member

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    The reason probably remains allocation of resources. A single week earlier production start of Model Y might be worth more than an Model S/X update coming next week rather than 2 years later, as a theoretical example.
     
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  3. hiroshiy

    hiroshiy Supporting Member

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    Just2 cents, changing battery and pack design cost a lot - and I don't know for sure but if the cells are higher, will the floor rise because of this?

    As some people mentioned upthread, I think range is more important than kWh. It looks to me cheaper and absolutely easier to change the motors and remove battery heaters from S/X to get higher efficiency?

    So I would guess:
    - remove 75 to drive people to 3 for now
    - after 3 orders are further accelerared, Tesla could reintroduce 75/100 again with upgraded motor(s), with 10% more range?
     
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  4. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight No Roads

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    Crazy idea that I don't know is even possible, but nothing says Tesla has to orient the 2170 batteries in a vertical position like the 18650s. I'm sure they could come up with an alternative design with the cells laying sideways and take up about the same space as the existing battery packs. But I'm sure that cooling and many other factors might make that not work.
     
  5. chispas

    chispas Member

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    I would call it "standard range"
     
  6. ohmman

    ohmman Maximum Plaid Member

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    The most powerful battery orientation of which I’m aware is some vertical and some angled this way and that.

    CEBED91C-195D-4AFB-A6A1-271F561B09C4.jpeg
     
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  7. George Jetson

    George Jetson Member

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    The new longer range battery will take a nod from SpaceX. MS BFB ;)
     
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  8. hiroshiy

    hiroshiy Supporting Member

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    My speculation, but if you lay 2170 sideways The coolant need to go up and down, instead of horizontally. Would that affect any efficiency?
     
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  9. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight No Roads

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    #109 HankLloydRight, Jan 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
    No, not really. Currently the coolant flows in vertical, narrow ribbons between the cells. There's no reason this can't be turned on it's side. The coolant would still flow horizontally.

    [​IMG]

    Even with several layers of cells (see below) the coolant would enter from the top, still flow horizontally between the cells, then vertically between the layers, letting gravity help a bit. Again, this just turned on its side:

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight No Roads

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    Here you can see the cooling ribbon between cells/layers is nearly flat.

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Olle

    Olle Member

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    #111 Olle, Jan 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
    It's hard to imagine that there are any problems at all for Tesla to design a Model 3 style battery and motor layout that works for S/X. I'm willing to go out on a limb and say Elon could do it himself in less than two hours (and probably already has done, many times over in his sleep). The interesting questions are what are their opportunity costs for validation, preparation of supply chain and production, new software, re certification the cars in different markets (new crash tests?) and is it worth to do it now vs everything else that they need to do?

    S/X are already outselling the ultra luxury SUVs and Sedans of the world why change a winning concept? The enemy of good is perfect, or something.
    If you were Tesla inc, would you rather speed up the launch Model Y that millions of people around the world are asking for or redesign S/X for supercharger V3 that nobody outside of these type of forums ever asked for let alone knows what it is ;-)

    Not saying they're not doing it but I'm guessing not. We shall soon see...
     
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  12. George Jetson

    George Jetson Member

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    Isn't this more of an emerging issue in Europe, where automakers are banding together to create their own fast-charging network (CCS HPC)? It will be a market differentiator and Tesla's history suggests they won't be the last one to the party. There are already retrofitted SC stations with CCS, so this seems like a harbinger. First look at Tesla’s new dual connector CCS Supercharger
     
  13. ohmman

    ohmman Maximum Plaid Member

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    I wonder if there would be an issue with compression of the cooling ribbon with the cells on their sides. In the vertical orientation, that ribbon is in its strongest position, and doesn't have much vertical strain being put on it. But when horizontal, it'll have the weight of at least some cells constantly compressing as the vehicle travels over the roadway.
     
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  14. henderrj

    henderrj Member

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    Not everyone works on everything. We tend to see development as monolithic, it's easier to visualize that way. The truth is since the decision was made to base the model y on the model 3 chassis there is no more battery development needed for it. Well, probably.

    The point being the battery guys may not be busy at all!

    It also depends on the pickup. If they decided to make the pickup battery the same size as the S / X chassis the development effort on it becomes much more relevant. I think I said somewhere that I believe the pickup will have multiple battery packs. Just like the semi does. Oops, I better say that last was speculation or I'll get in trouble!
     
  15. Olle

    Olle Member

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    #115 Olle, Jan 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
    Probably, yes. But how about this scenario:
    First my background for writing this. Some of my German friends have become angry almost to the point of exploding when I suggested that Tesla could be a competitor of Mercedes and Porsche or should even be allowed to be mentioned in the same room as these. Both that it is American and that its electric seems just too much to stomach. Perhaps then it's almost better to let Porsche Taycan be the German pride and poster boy of ultra fast charging for a while and get really high PR to get the Porsche buyers to buy Taycan instead of ICE Porsche, to normalize EVs in Germany so to speak. Then once that ball is rolling and sport/luxury EV is no longer weird, people will start considering it. Tesla can then update the S/X and blow everyone out of the water again and grow even more than it otherwise could have.
     
  16. electronblue

    electronblue Active Member

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    #116 electronblue, Jan 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
    Over on M3 forums there is interesting talk of USA CCS chargers getting 350 kWh also and speculation that a Tesla charge port could physically fit both Tesla and CCS charge connectors. It seems to me 350 kWh can’t work over adapters so it would be great for Tesla to be able to tap natively into these 350 kWh stations in the USA also. Electrify America is building up significant CCS presence and charging speed improvements also in America.

     
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  17. ohmman

    ohmman Maximum Plaid Member

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    #117 ohmman, Jan 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
    I ran across a lot of these Electrify America CCS stations on PlugShare while planning our summer road trip. I wouldn’t complain about being able to access them.
     
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  18. hiroshiy

    hiroshiy Supporting Member

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    Thanks for the diagram. If you just placing the coolant ribbon that way (top of the diagram as top), you can place approx 3-4 layers of horizontal cells. I still wonder how to tackle these potential issues:
    1. At the end of the ribbon you need to go sideways (change direction). It looks to me that the ribbon placement will cause some friction of the coolant?
    2. When the pack is punctured from the bottom multiple cells are vulnerable, in horizontal placement. Also, the ribbon will be 100% damaged so it's going to be difficult to repair the pack after such incident.
     
  19. Beltsbear

    Beltsbear Member

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    The floor would not rise, the ground clearance would diminish by 5mm. Not enough to worry about. They might change the suspension, or something else, but probably not necessary.
     
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  20. ohmman

    ohmman Maximum Plaid Member

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    75D still looks available. I forgot the old Elon “I didn’t say which Sunday” trick.
     
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