75D battery degradation

[Cheburashka]

I've gone above 110 on my Dec 2016 75D after the recent updates.

That said, I lost 2 miles range in only a few thousand miles in degradation, and I seldom charge above 80%.

 

[houstonian]

Apparently I'm now throttled, which is a REAL bummer.

@BerTX - any estimate for your total SC usage prior to throttling?

 

[BerTX]

@BerTX - any estimate for your total SC usage prior to throttling?

I don't have Superchargers within 60 miles or so. I only charge on road trips. I would say fewer than 200 SC sessions. 70K miles now on the odometer.

 

[Snerruc]

2016 S75 here. Currently charge to 230-232 miles at 100%. I don’t sweat the drop as the algorithm used to determine the state of charge is not that accurate. Mainly I go by what I actually see on the road. Yesterday I did a 205 mile leg and pulled into the supercharger with the meter showing 52 miles. I started with 230. The next leg was interstate with a long stoppage for a wreck, and I started with 202 and had 37 left at home for a 165 mile leg. No,I don’t drive like an old man(although I am one). Usually limit +5or with traffic flow. Results on the highway are the only thing that matters, not the numbers on the dash.

 

[BANKWUPT]

FWIW, I treat my 75D pretty badly compared to other people on this sub (charge to 90% even when I am not going far, charge to 100% once a week, use superchargers 4-5 times per week, have let the battery get down below 5% three times, have left the car parked overnight with less than 10%, etc) and have only "lost" 1 mile of range. When I got my car new in September 2018 it had 8 miles on the odometer & 100% charge was 252 miles. I'm at 8,900 miles since then and it charges to 251 miles. I don't think anyone knows, honestly. BMS can be weird.

15,500 mile update: Still charges to 251!

 

[TSLC]

I don't have Superchargers within 60 miles or so. I only charge on road trips. I would say fewer than 200 SC sessions. 70K miles now on the odometer.

This is exactly my observation on the throttling issue.

Once you add about 15K miles of DC fast charging to the pack, the computer will restrict supercharging speed to a peak of approximately 80kW before tapering quickly. Every charge session is virtually the same as before and it does not seem to be throttled further.

As far as degradation is concerned, 7/17 build S75D with 37.7K now range charges to 234/235 miles maximum. It has been at this same 235 100% reporting for approximately 7-10K miles and nearly six months. For reference, I never saw more than 252 new and it seems it may have moved down to 234 now. Real world degradation seems about 6.5-7% for me. The car should have been advertised as 250 max new. Tesla was too optimistic here.

This is after depletion to single digits and repeated full charges to “balance the pack”, “train the BMS”, “work out the gremlins” or whatever else witch doctory is suggested to ensure the rated range displayed is fairly accurate. I even ran it to 1% on a long run before plugging in.

Typically apply a single weekly Supercharging session to 90% weekly for convenience.

At any rate, this thread is a helpful reference point to see how we are all doing relative to one another and to help keep things in perspective. Hopefully, you guys will chime in with some updates.

I think this variant is really at the very bottom of what is acceptable from a range standpoint, so hoping that we don’t see much more than current degradation rates over the next 100K or so or we will need an accelerated Supercharger deployment plan.

 

[mvotb]

My 2016 s 75 only gets about 170 real miles on a full charge. Took it in, and they said I supercharge too much. Checked the warranty and it said there is no warranty on battery milage loss over time, of any ammont. I'm pretty bummed that I have to do a full charge, or two partials, while on a 250 mile trip to vegas from LA, instead of nonstop.

I would have my can bus data read to see if Tesla has voltage capped your battery. I believe DRas was offering to read cars like yours, and is in SoCal. He is in the sudden loss of range thread.

 

[JzCastle]

Model S 75D
Delivery: November 2017
Trip: 35.761km / ~22.221miles

Charges to 384km / ~239miles according to UI
Scan my Tesla shows 72.5kWh nominal full pack
Battery degradation is 2.5kWh = -3.33% (with the assumption battery was 75kWh when new)

 

[Oldschool496]

“balance the pack”,

This balancing thing is very arduous to do right. Down as low as you can go 15 miles of range or 3-5% is adequate, drive immediately off the entire charge, being thrifty(rated MPGe thrifty of original rating) down again to as low as you can go, steady speed, on level ground lets say 62 mph or something without slowing etc. That causes the BMS to recalibrate to this new standard of use. Unfortunately as you go along to your original driving style the BMS again recalibrates to your original style and your right back where you were.

SO really your car 0f 250-259 whatever, brand new to be safe always take 20% off the top before you buy it in your mind. Your car really has a range of no more then 200 miles if your thrifty, original rated thrifty at that.

I don't even worry about it all, I charge at superchargers what I need, I hit and run and all this math is really for the classroom. Because none of it fits outside with you driving your car in any condition whatsoever. You'll never find the sweet spot ever. The only way you might if nobody was ever on the road with you and you just kept going and going without someone impeding your experiment. You'd be Omega man. It would be a movie.

I will say I have had some updates lately that have significantly increased my range via less Kwh usage for same driving style. V9 when it first came out, really was eating me alive I thought, I had at the same moment put Arachnids on the car and that wasn't helping much either. Those are stored now and back to 19s, Im seeing 259-289 Kwh =usage last 30 miles at 77-82 dry nights with headlights, AC and foglights.

 

[ucmndd]

This balancing thing is very arduous to do right.

No doubt because the entire process is a loosely correlated set of arbitrary instructions, half-truths, outdated advice, and plain old sorcery that has no tangible relationship with reality.

 

[Oldschool496]

No doubt because the entire process is a loosely correlated set of arbitrary instructions, half-truths, outdated advice, and plain old sorcery that has no tangible relationship with reality.

Very Good, I could have kept it short and sweet like that, the whole thing. Now drive the car and safe travels to you and everyone.

 

[ExecCat1]

Just charged my September 2018 75D (only 13,000 miles) to 100% and only got to a range of 243. I'm pretty pissed about this. 6.2% degradation in 14 months is really bad. I never got 259 and when I took it in for a battery check within the first 3 months they claimed everything was fine. This is false advertisement in my book.

 

[cucubits]

How much degradation must be for Tesla to admit there's something wrong and fix/replace the battery?

 

[ucmndd]

How much degradation must be for Tesla to admit there's something wrong and fix/replace the battery?

No such number exists for the S/X. For the 3 it’s 30% within 8 years or 125,000 miles.

 

[cucubits]

No such number exists for the S/X. For the 3 it’s 30% within 8 years or 125,000 miles.

Let me ask this another way.

I'm buying a used 2016 75D from Tesla (high-ish mileage 40k) and as usually they don't provide details about the history of the car. At delivery, when I see the charge status and rated range for the first time, what numbers should be scary enough so that I refuse delivery based on them?

 

[ucmndd]

Let me ask this another way.

I'm buying a used 2016 75D from Tesla (high-ish mileage 40k) and as usually they don't provide details about the history of the car. At delivery, when I see the charge status and rated range for the first time, what numbers should be scary enough so that I refuse delivery based on them?

You’re probably the only person that can answer that based on your needs, expectations, price paid, etc. I can give you a data point though.

My late 2016 RWD is about to hit 100,000 miles, and my 100% charge as of yesterday was 218 miles (down from 249 when new). 12.5% loss. I’m near the top of the curve in that regard, only seen a few others on here with numbers close to that. So that’s getting close to your upper bound / worse case scenario.

 

[Oldschool496]

Just charged my September 2018 75D (only 13,000 miles) to 100% and only got to a range of 243. I'm pretty pissed about this. 6.2% degradation in 14 months is really bad. I never got 259 and when I took it in for a battery check within the first 3 months they claimed everything was fine. This is false advertisement in my book.

How much degradation must be for Tesla to admit there's something wrong and fix/replace the battery?

No such number exists for the S/X. For the 3 it’s 30% within 8 years or 125,000 miles.

From what I understand your battery is rated(after testing) against all others inservice of the same spec, if it lies well below some threshold determined by Tesla against all the others inservice(outlier of strong degradation) then your battery is in failure. Very rare.

Now to the Gentlemen at 243. expecting 5% early is normal, your is a bit early, not by much. You charge to top a lot and let it sit for hours-days?

Yes it hurts, we know. I am at 38,000 miles and full charge is 231. In actuality for me on trips it has not affected me. I am a splash and go charger. Arrive after people have in Model 3s and other X and S. Leave before they are done. I will say my breaking point on this car though will be 200-210. Taking 20% off that number does not leave much for serious travel.

IMO:
One thing we all must understand the batteries are Chemical Variants of varying degree by manufacture from the moment they are made.
Some are slightly better than others and some (very, very few are complete duds).

Let me ask this another way.

I'm buying a used 2016 75D from Tesla (high-ish mileage 40k) and as usually they don't provide details about the history of the car. At delivery, when I see the charge status and rated range for the first time, what numbers should be scary enough so that I refuse delivery based on them?

225-231, if its higher then that your in the chips, many are "reporting" much higher numbers of which I highly doubt. Good luck them letting you charge it fully though before taking full possession. Not usually done that way. Those first four or so miles at the top burn off fast as your driving.

Driving style and the BMS(Battery Management System) of the previous owner all play into your expected range of a given used car again IMO.

Too many factors here to lock down to all cars. Each is unique, driven by unique drivers, with again unique driving styles against unique manufacturing of that car and battery, on that day

 

[Oldschool496]

2016 S75 here. Currently charge to 230-232 miles at 100%. I don’t sweat the drop as the algorithm used to determine the state of charge is not that accurate. Mainly I go by what I actually see on the road. Yesterday I did a 205 mile leg and pulled into the supercharger with the meter showing 52 miles. I started with 230. The next leg was interstate with a long stoppage for a wreck, and I started with 202 and had 37 left at home for a 165 mile leg. No,I don’t drive like an old man(although I am one). Usually limit +5or with traffic flow. Results on the highway are the only thing that matters, not the numbers on the dash.

This is how it is for most, I've had loaners that I charge to exactly what I need for a trip I know what it needs plus 15-20%. As soon as I get on the highway the car says I must travel below some crazy low speed to reach my destination(I ignore this that day, that car). The car is taking into account that all these lead foot loaner people have reset the expected range to a low number. Within 10 miles, that car is now letting me go as fast as I want with no message. Of course all this takes insight to where is this car getting its info from. Lead foot drivers of less then 30 miles usage loaner people mostly over some period of time.

 

[evalst2018]

62k miles and at 16% degradation on a 90d...247/294...am in arbitration with Tesla...as they feel the battery is fine with 16%degrdation

 

[Oldschool496]

16% degradation on a 90d...247/294.

Sounds likely, mine is 10.8% at 38,000 miles. You think I'll make it to 16% by 62K miles?