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7kW or 22kW at Work Location - Model 3

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more 7KW charging points is better than less but 22 kw

I'm not understanding this approach.

My view is:

Install the infrastructure once. Don't want to have the cost of upgrading it later. Particularly if that would involve "digging up the car park" !!

Commercial 3-Phase supply - so, within reason, no limit as to how much charging can be supported (obviously if that's not the case then the decision will be made based on dividing up the available capacity - or install chargers which can load-balance)

Some extra capital cost of 22kW kit, rather than 7kW ... that might tip the balance in some instances, but buy-cheap-pay-twice also applies, and I think that for most installations a large portion of the cost will be infrastructure / getting the cables around the car park etc.

But I might be missing the blinking obvious?
 
I'm not understanding this approach.

My view is:

Install the infrastructure once. Don't want to have the cost of upgrading it later. Particularly if that would involve "digging up the car park" !!

Commercial 3-Phase supply - so, within reason, no limit as to how much charging can be supported (obviously if that's not the case then the decision will be made based on dividing up the available capacity - or install chargers which can load-balance)

Some extra capital cost of 22kW kit, rather than 7kW ... that might tip the balance in some instances, but buy-cheap-pay-twice also applies, and I think that for most installations a large portion of the cost will be infrastructure / getting the cables around the car park etc.

But I might be missing the blinking obvious?
IF you have to chose single 22 kw vs 3 x 7 kw for me a very simple choice.

in perfect world, you would have like ten 22kw charging station and that's it, you are sorter. but in the real life, I would ALWAYS choose more 7 kw vs less but 22 kw.
7 kw is more than enough for a long charge. and office is the place where the long charge would happen.

it would be annoying, to go and move my car every time I charge because there's only one 22 kw charging station and more than 1 user.

If I was a business and money (extra few hundred pounds was not an issue, then I would equip all car part spaces with charging stations and that would be properly future proof.
 
it depends, I suppose, but for the normal office use, if line capacity is there, I would put 7 kw.
in this case you would have perfect middle ground on number of chargers and time to charge, allowing someone to drop to office for couple of hours before/after customer/site visit to top-up as well as future proof if battery capacity, in the future, is let's say 100 kwh
 
I'm not understanding the "more 7kw" vs "less 22 kw" ones

Why not just put 22kw stalls at every station?

Surely the Civils are going to be most of the cost?, and the difference between 7 kw and 22 kw kit will be a tiny proportion of the total bill.
You are working on the assumption that you have unlimited power capacity which will not be the reality. You’ll hit a power capacity issue at some point.

You have to consider capacity, immediate need as well as potential future need.

I agree if you have the capacity to fit all the 22kw chargers you ever want then do it as the extra outlay is minimal but that probably isn’t the reality for most installs. Likewise you may only want 3 now but want another 12 in the future. You might not have capacity for 15 22kw but could at 7kw.

You might also want to consider charge points that have a back office system so you can bill your employees for the power they use. Power isn’t cheap and you’ll soon be paying for all their personal/commuting mileage as well as any work mileage. Just look at your local Tesco in the dead of night, full of electric car owners doing their shopping apparently.
 
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I'm not understanding the "more 7kw" vs "less 22 kw" ones

Why not just put 22kw stalls at every station?

Surely the Civils are going to be most of the cost?, and the difference between 7 kw and 22 kw kit will be a tiny proportion of the total bill.
Unless your lucky and can wall mount , as Upgraded states the civils can cost more than the actual charge points and cabling .

Im fortunate and could put in the 3 dual 22kW chargers , we had plenty capacity on the power side the chargers cost £400 more than dual 7kW ones so it was an easy choice , just plan for the future

2021 October pricing

Dual; 7kW £950
Dual 22kW £1350















build
 
I'm not really sure what future world all this future proofing for increase in power rates is for.

I can see that you need to plan for more EV's, but planning for EV's needing more power I'm just not getting except in a very rare circumstance which hasn't even been mentioned that I can see. If EV's are going to need more power to charge, then that means either less efficient vehicles or people undertaking longer journeys without access to other charge facilities and requiring a quicker turnaround. I really do not see either of those being the future. Is ~80 miles increase range per 4 hours plugged in such a limitation?

Yes, you do need to future proof. It would be pretty stupid to dig up a car park and not lay conduit for cables to be replaced and/or extended, but that is not the same as paying half as much again now to put in higher capacity cabling and charge points on the off chance that they may be of use at some point.

My crystal ball says that in addition to an increase in the number of EV's requiring charging during 'long stay' visits, there is likely to become a tax on office parking and/or charging which will make the desire to charge at a place of work less attractive. My crystal ball also says that restrictions, or at least incentives, against high power usage will become more common place.

Now I cannot remember the OP's circumstances so may be pissing in the wind, but a solution to cope with an increase in the volume of vehicles requiring office charging would seem to be would seem to be better planning than planning for less efficient vehicles or people wanting to maximise a quick top up before quickly moving on.
 
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I'm not really sure what future world all this future proofing for increase in power rates is for.

I tend in that direction ... so may not be representative!

4 hour charge suits travelling salesman / employees heading off to / returning from off-site meetings and only in the office for a few hours.

It also favours anyone towing etc.

We don't have either of those right now ... in fact 50% of the time the car park is all-but-empty post pandemic. But we did have quite a few out-and-back client-meeting scenario visits before. And who knows what our office will be used for in short term? I can't imagine any towing ... but ... things change.

At start of pandemic we cleared out of one of our city centre offices and gave it to an NHS call centre team - none of our people was venturing out of their house at that time, so we had no use for it ... At the start of pandemic we had moaned about only recently having installed a great big fat fibre cable into the building (aka "future proofing") ... and then it turned out that the call centre had more use for it than we had done :)

We tend to over specify infrastructure then when something goes a bit skewwhiff we find we can respond and react faster than the competition ... I am struggling to remember an occasion when we over-did something like that and then regretted it. Not sure that if I can bundle 22kW car park chargers into my "couldn't afford not to have it" category - normally reserved for justification to Wifee of rash eBay purchases!

paying half as much again now to put in higher capacity cabling

Not sure what the difference would be. I suspect if you want to put in 7-kW chargers you would have to split them across all 3 phases (my understanding is that the supplier gets miffed if your meter reading is "all on Phase-1" :) - so installation would need to balance across all three phases, so if I have that right a fair bit of cable would be used to accommodate that, maybe similar to cost of a fat 3-Phase-cable)

My crystal ball says ... there is likely to become a tax on office parking and/or charging which will make the desire to charge at a place of work less attractive

Bound to be, as soon as most employers have put chargers in the car park the government is bound to do a volta-face (after having given us a hand-out to encourage us to do it). Car Park will then become a profit centre ... we could get one of those nice clamping-companies to increase our profit even more!!

All joking apart, we have a reasonable number of people with no off-street parking, so if they are the only ones to use it that would be fine.

My crystal ball also says that restrictions, or at least incentives, against high power usage will become more common place.

We monitor what employees use. At some point I'm sure we will either restrict that if it remains a perk or when EVs become more commonplace (right now we would like to encourage uptake, once majority have one we won't feel so inclined to provide any "subsidy")

But dunno how other companies think in that regard.

I cannot remember the OP's circumstances

Doing something - anything! - has got to be better than doing nothing :)
 
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Can't remember what brand the other chargers are (but I can find out if you are interested). There is a phone APP and a QR code on each one. EV employees get "Accounts" set up, and then can just scan the QR code on their APP and initiate the charge.
I'd be super interested in what this solution is if you don't mind checking it out? My interest is residential, but describes exactly the scenario I was trying to investigate and getting no where.

Thanks!
 
interested in what this solution is

as luck would have it :) I have a photo on my phone as last time I used it I couldn't remember password so emailed the QR code to Admin to ask them to start a session for me ... so I was able to see the brand etc.

Ours look like this photo, as appears to be the case for all the marketing images on their website ... but I can't find any matching product, so probably there is a new model and the website not updated ...

Commercial+Charging+Images+Main-02.jpg


07+EO+Charging+%28Fleet%29.jpg


Ours have a QR code stuck just above the "socket". The phone APP opens with a QR-camera widget (preceded by a LOGIN or REGISTER screen if not currently considered "active"). Get cable out of boot, Plug in, Open phone APP, Scan the QR code and basically that's it. (I think stop-charge, from the car, is enough to allow unplug - i.e. without having to get the phone APP out again, but I can't remember ... there is another charger at work, predating all that, which is the one I normally use ...)

For a visitor plug in own cable and then either photo the QR code or note the Stall No. and give that to reception - the Admin APP allows initiating a charge, as well as setting up a new "member"

It was installed by the people we have used for PV, PowerWall, Wall chargers etc. (you don't have a location showing so dunno if they would be local to you)

I assume the latest model is the "EO Genius" but the photo makes it hard to see much about it ...

Commercial+Charging+Images+Main-04.jpg


EO Genius Blurb:​

Charge up to 22kW
Built-in active load management

Restrict access using RFID or EO App

Charging insights via the EO Cloud
Dimensions
175mm x 125mm x 125mm
OZEV Approved
Eligible for the Workplace Charging Scheme (UK) (** we got 50% subsidy for install, maybe that was this scheme)

Also:

EO Hub​

Connect an EO Genius charger to the EO Hub and unlock smart-charging technology. Connect up to 30 charge points per EO Hub.
Key features:
Charge scheduling
Telematics integration
Manage and monitor energy usage
Cloud connected via EO Cloud
Revenue Generation
Monetise your charge points and charge drivers to plug-in (available in all territories)

EO Cloud​

Cloud-based charge point management system suitable for fleets, workplaces, cark parks & charging destinations.
Key features:
Remote management of charge points
Monitor energy usage
Remotely diagnose & resolve issues
Monetise your charging infrastructure

www.eocharging.com
 
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as luck would have it :) I have a photo on my phone as last time I used it I couldn't remember password so emailed the QR code to Admin to ask them to start a session for me ... so I was able to see the brand etc.

Ours look like this photo, as appears to be the case for all the marketing images on their website ... but I can't find any matching product, so probably there is a new model and the website not updated ...

Commercial+Charging+Images+Main-02.jpg


07+EO+Charging+%28Fleet%29.jpg


Ours have a QR code stuck just above the "socket". The phone APP opens with a QR-camera widget (preceded by a LOGIN or REGISTER screen if not currently considered "active"). Get cable out of boot, Plug in, Open phone APP, Scan the QR code and basically that's it. (I think stop-charge, from the car, is enough to allow unplug - i.e. without having to get the phone APP out again, but I can't remember ... there is another charger at work, predating all that, which is the one I normally use ...)

For a visitor plug in own cable and then either photo the QR code or note the Stall No. and give that to reception - the Admin APP allows initiating a charge, as well as setting up a new "member"

It was installed by the people we have used for PV, PowerWall, Wall chargers etc. (you don't have a location showing so dunno if they would be local to you)

I assume the latest model is the "EO Genius" but the photo makes it hard to see much about it ...

Commercial+Charging+Images+Main-04.jpg


EO Genius Blurb:​

Charge up to 22kW
Built-in active load management

Restrict access using RFID or EO App

Charging insights via the EO Cloud
Dimensions
175mm x 125mm x 125mm
OZEV Approved
Eligible for the Workplace Charging Scheme (UK) (** we got 50% subsidy for install, maybe that was this scheme)

Also:

EO Hub​

Connect an EO Genius charger to the EO Hub and unlock smart-charging technology. Connect up to 30 charge points per EO Hub.
Key features:
Charge scheduling
Telematics integration
Manage and monitor energy usage
Cloud connected via EO Cloud
Revenue Generation
Monetise your charge points and charge drivers to plug-in (available in all territories)

EO Cloud​

Cloud-based charge point management system suitable for fleets, workplaces, cark parks & charging destinations.
Key features:
Remote management of charge points
Monitor energy usage
Remotely diagnose & resolve issues
Monetise your charging infrastructure

www.eocharging.com
Cheers! I've been on the eo website many times and must have browsed straight past all this! Brill, thanks.

Have been on the lookout for flat (with off stree parking) charging solutions and this looks spot on. Up here in Scotland blocks are pretty much mandated to have a factor, so with this all the mechanisms are in place to enable charging solutions for blocks really. Which is ace (and saves me inventing it, which I had been thinking about).
 
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